CHARDAL - please define, and help to identify such kehillos

amother

Fri, Sep 07 2012, 1:50 am

OP here

tamiri, I always find your posts so useful and full of common sense, thanks.

fiddle, I was wondering about ramat shilo, who lives there, does it sound like somewhere that we would be comfortable (I know htat you have read my descriptions of me and my family), is it a proper part of the rbs alef community or is it a bit out on a limb, separate? anything you can tell me about it would help. thanks

fiddle

Fri, Sep 07 2012, 6:27 am

There's no specific type there. There are all different shuls. Ranging from lev hatorah to pilsner chassidic. The people range from Israeli to American and from 20 year old newly married to 50 year old with married kids. There's no type there. And it's part of rbs a. Like sheinfeld and rbs bet.

Shuly

Sun, Sep 09 2012, 2:51 pm

The part of Ramat Shilo I have been in, did not seem chareidi at all. If anything, it was slightly anti - which tends to be an issue in RBS.

OP, (unlike America) if your husband wears a knitted yarmulka, he will not be considered chareidi anywhere in Israel. This means that your kids will not be accepted to chareidi schools.

amother

Sun, Sep 09 2012, 3:47 pm

Hi suly, this is OP

yes, my dh wears a black kippah sruga, is thinking of going more colorful... we do not want chareidi schools, what do yu mean when you say that ramat shilo is ANTI-CHAREIDI and htat this is an issue in RBS? are there major divides there, I mean do different types not talk to one another, is there a really major achdus problem?

amother

Sun, Sep 09 2012, 3:58 pm

Ramat shilo is basically a terraced block in RBS A. Many people move here thinking that there is a distinct difference between here and the rest of rbs but there really isn't- there are clusters of similarly minded people in many other parts of rbs a, but there is a nice cluster of frum, rw yu-ish people here in Ramat shilo too. There are also some Israeli chareidim, American yeshivish types, chareidi sefardim, regular sefardim, basically what you will find everywhere else. If you can find good housing in this area then go for it because you will definitely be able to find people you can connect with, but housing is difficult here so I would look in other parts of rbs a too. There are many different shuls you can fit into and you can choose a block based on that.

amother

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 11:56 pm

hi, this is OP

one of the most recent amothers when talking about Ramat shilo, mebtioned a good crowd of right wing YU type people. could you please define that for me? Are we talking about people who are serious about halacha, kippa seruga in general, TV or no TV? Thanks.

amother

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 11:59 pm

OP again

and also, what schools do such people send their kids to > is it mainly rapaport ahavat yisrael or also magen avot or moriah?

Another question, to those who have read my original post and understand my family dynamics and what we are looking for, do you think that Maalei adumim is a good option for us? If yes, could you tell me more about it please? TIA!
again, I really appreciate all of your help, time adn energy...

amother

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 2:36 am

Torani supposedly means frummer than regular DL, but it's all relative and doesn't mean a whole lot. My friend in Modiin calls herself Torani because she covers her hair partially with a hankie and wears sleeves down to her elbow (not past). Well, compared to her neighbors, she IS Torani!

Chardal also has come not to mean much. Schools that call themselves chardal may be such in philosophy, but generally not in student body.

chanchy123

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 2:45 am

amother wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking for. It seems like your DH is looking for a community that takes halacha seriously without the chitzunious of chareidi life. I'm not sure what you are looking for, if you don't mind not having a chareidi mindset or mentatlity but really care only about halachic observence any torani DL community would be fine for you. You would just have to realize that there is a wide range of halachic opinions about certain things (such as stockings for women/girls) and the fact that people observe halacha differently doesn't mean it is less important to them or they take it less seriously (of course some people do take it less seriously but there are people like that in all communities).
If the chitzunious of chareidi life and chareidi mentality are important to you, and I can totally understand they would be, - I mean we dress, the things they talk about, the foods they eat, etc. are a big part of what we are, it's hard to live among people who are so different - it will be harder, but not impossible to find a community, I don't know MA well enough to answer your question.

RachelEve14

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 4:05 am

I live in MA (Mitzpe Nevo) and just looked at your OP again. I can tell you a bit about some of the things here, but I can't tell you if it's a good fit. It is most definatly not a charadi community, or an all chardal one. Things like sleeves, there are many people who wear 3/4, and many who don't. Almost everyone covers their hair, and mostly fully (but not all). I can't think of anyone offhand who doesn't cover her hair outside the house, but I'm sure there are women here who don't. Many wear a scarf or hat and what falls out falls out, but I would say the majority cover hair fully, or leave a bit in the front. The elementary Torani school requires 3/4 sleeves and socks that meet the skirt, but I would say most people here do not wear socks. I would say that most people do have computer access, and some have television, many have DVDs, but tehre are of course people who don't. I find in general people are respectful and not offended.

RachelEve14

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 9:05 am

stillgrowing wrote:

Are interactions bet the genders different in a torani or chardal community vs a chareidi community?

I cna't speak for everywhere. Here B'nei Akiva is separate (but in the same building), and the Torani school is totally separate (but they are next to each other). There is also Ariel which meets in totally separate spaces for boys & girls.

amother

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 9:31 am

amother wrote:

Ramat Shilo amother

Serious about halacha yes. All different kinds of yarmulkas. Most people around here don't have a TV, but some do, but many people allow videos/computer shows in very differing degrees of parental control. I think the TV thing is a red herring since who really needs a TV anymore? In general I can't say exactly what each family does because I'm not looking through their windows and I hope they aren't looking through mine. All different kinds of schools also- for girls rappaport, moriah, magen avot, and to a lesser extent now the new Bais Yaakov. On the boys side you have rappaport moriah, magen avot, darchei noam and toras moshe.

But again, you will find this mix all around RBS too. I wouldn't come here for hashkafic reasons, but there are lots of nice people here and you would definitely find your place Smile

But if you can't find a place to live in this specific neighborhood (because the real estate right here isn't great) I think there are other blocks and shuls in RBS where you would be comfortable too. I don't think your situation is as complicated as you think it is.

fiddle

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 9:51 am

I will echo the previous amother. it doesnt seem like you are too different from anyone I see around.
you gotta find the right school for your kids, and your husband needs to find a nice shul where he is comfortable, and RBS definitely has the variety.
im sure you can find your place anywhere. just whatever you do, do no try to fit your family into a box they dont fit into. you can do that to yourself. dont do that to your kids.

amother

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 1:57 pm

This is OP

thanks to everyone for your responses. Racheleve, I appreciate your comments on Maale adumim a lot. If we start to seriously look into it, hten I might well start a new thread on it, orPM you and/or some of teh other helpful posters there, Marion also I think?

Ramat shilo amother and fiddle, I really appreciate your comments. you make me feel a lot better by saying that we do not sound to different from many others around!
fiddle, when you advise not to fit my kids into a box, what exactly do you mean? if for example Rapaport fitted my dh's hashkafa best, would it be putting them into a box by sending htem there when they are more used to their current school which is a large OOT school, runby chareidim but attended by a wide mixture (many more black velvets than srugas though) . I am wondering if it would be harder to put them in a chardal/SL school when they are living in a community wiht lots of chareidim, than it would be if we moved to somewhere like maale adumim where there are no chareidim to speak of. what do you think. I appreciate yur thoughts.
could you two ladies tell me if you know, approx what percentage of RBSA is chareidi?
TIA

amother

Wed, Sep 12 2012, 12:56 am

OP here again,

fiddle, ramat shilo amother and any other people in the know, could you tell me about these schools, darchei noam? toras moshe? what hashkafa, are they chareidi, or not? is there a mix of people who send there.
another very important question, in RBS do peoople generally get their kids into the school of their choice or is there sometimes a problem having a kid accepted. for example, my kids are all BH smart, good students, woul it be easy to get them into rapaports for kitah 8, 7, 5, 1 . ? if there are sometimes problems getting in, could you please say what could make them not accept them, thanks.

out of interest, where do you ladies send your kids to school in RBS?