CHARDAL - please define, and help to identify such kehillos

amother

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 4:21 am

amother wrote:

I wish you had a way to PM people because we looked into Rechovot in great detail and I have lots I can tell you about it. about budgeting, we were told we would need $30,000-$40,000 a year to make it work. (in shekels people told us 12-14K a month).
if you want to post specific questions about rechovot, I can try to answer. there is a poster on here who lives in rechovot but I don't think she wants to reveal her identity.

I live in Rechovot, but I want to stay anon. And you are amother. You can pm Tamiri, she knows who I am and I give her permission to tell you who I am so you can pm me.

amother

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 11:40 pm

thanks tamiri, I guess so. I would love to hear it all though - forewarned is forearmed imho!
tamiri, do you think that the figures quoted by the above poster are accurate - approx 6000 shekel a month maximum for a full time teacher? that seems so minimal. !

I mean, here in the US, sure teachers are underpaid, but at least it is a living wage just about. so, htat is also the thing, we (my family)) are anyway already used to living frugally, no luxuries here at all , so that is also why I have been thinking that theoretically it should be easier for us to make the move than it would be for many other americans...

amother

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 1:37 am

OP here.

Karnash, you have lifted me out of a 'depresssion'! ootehr posters have been implying that it is impossible to make ends meet on a teacher's salarey.where can my dh get jobs paying that kind of amount - I really think htat this is a living wage for us! of course it might be harder for my dh whose ivrit is really not perfect to find a well paying job at first I understand. where do these people teach? thank you, thank you, I was just on the verge of telling dh that he must retrain before we consider aliyah seruously........

amother

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 1:46 am

ewa -jo
this is OP
I have read about kochav yaakov, I do like the sound of it, I am just worried about my older kids who will be 14 and 12 when we make aliyah. what is it like in KY for olim, will my kids get a lot of help in school? also becasue it is further out the wya, will it be harder for my dh to find a job as a teacher/rebbi ?
another concern is the security, what is the security situation like out there, I am a bit of a scaredy-cat I am afraid.
so, ewa-jo, do yuo think that KY fits our situation as a possibly chardal type place?

Karnash

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:04 am

All mamlachti, mamad and most private schools (except for chareidi - which have different criteria and expectations from their rebbis and teachers) pay according to the Misrad Hachinuch pay scale, which is based on qualifications and experience - with increments every year for experience.
This is the mimimun you will be paid in most schools. You can add to your salary by teaching above a full schedule, assuming extra responsibilities - such as being head of a department, teaching bagrut classes, being in charge of extra-curricular activities, etc.
You cannot assume that you will get the perfect job on arrival. Finding the right job and place for you is a learning curve in itself.
What subject will your husband be teaching? English? Will he be a RaM (rav mechanech)? If he teaches English - there is a demand in the yeshivot tichoniot for male English teachers. For anything else - his ivrit level is crucial. If he teaches English, there is the added advantage of private lessons - also in the chareidi sector where many study English privately so that they can take the bagruyot at some point and then continue their secular education in a college.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:11 am

amother wrote:

OP here
previous amother, what do you mean when you say 'don't do that to your kids -RBS I mean' ? don't do whaT to them, do you mean dont make them suffer financially in RBS? and if not, why specifically not there, do you mean bec there are a lot of anglos who are not suffering financiallly?

Question

To the OP, I am not exactly sure what this poster meant by what she wrote about rbs, but I will tell you that I lived there for 2 years and it was not a positive experience (wont go into details) and so we met many families and there is, without a doubt, a problem there of children going waaaaay off the derech. I am not sure what it is about that specific place, but many many kids have been known to have gone off the derech.
And there is a well known problem there having to do with relations offenders.

But on the other hand Smile

, I do know many people who are very happy there as well, so everything has to be weighed carefully.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:20 am

Karnash wrote:

Sorry, I know teachers who are making 12,000 and 15,000 shekel also. If you have at least a BA, preferably an MA, work full time, have documented experience, take advantage of all the extras that can add to your salary - you can make a very decent wage with excellent benefits. If you give private lessons that is even additional income.

Most teachers don't earn 12-15k, unless they have many many years of experience and a teaching diploma and a BA and perhaps an MA, AND work overtime/ take extra managerial responsibilities like being racaz.
I would say the average high school teacher probably earns between 4000-8k for a full time job. Maybe a bit more since they changed the whole system with Ofek Chadash/Oz Letmura (making teaching more of an 8-4 job rather than just coming in for your specific hours).
But yes, a lot of places are desperate for English teachers.

amother

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:20 am

OP here again
thank you so much shabbatiscoming and karnash.

btw, I just read on another 'chardal' thread a mention of mitzpe yericho. could anyone please tell me a little bit about it, including its location, the schools, security, mix of people, rental/real estate prices and more. thanks. I could not find anything about it (except for info about a school) on the nefesh b'nefesh website and I would really like to know more.'

Shabbat, that is my biggest concern, my teens and pre-teens. how would htey cope with the move. I wish I knew what is the source of the problem in RBS. do you have any further insights on this? and btw, the relations offenders, are the offences happening in the schools or just around hte neighborhood?

thanks again, I reeally appreciate all of your help ladies, you are truly the best! you are all giving of your time and energy to help a stranger. I look forward to meetingyou in eretz yisrael one day soon b'ezrat Hashem!

curlgirl

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:48 am

Karnash wrote:

I really really wouldn't count on this kind of salary. At all.

I think you should plan on both working and look for jobs for BOTH of you before/ as soon as you come.

Be prepared to work full-time if you make aliyah. IMO.

amother

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 3:10 am

I was the one who warned about rbs. I don't live there but see the large amount of OTD kids from there. its so very very sad to see. Say you move there and your teens are having a hard time adjusting. Who do you think they will gravitate to? Why move somewhere that has a known gigantic problem with it? How will your kids adjust living in israel while in a bubble? How will you be able to afford living there? My dh makes good money for israeli standards and we could never pull it off there financially.

I came with my oldest 13. To a place with no other anglo olim. The schools handled them just fine. Their best friends are israelis. We are just here a short time and my children have integrated beautifully and israelis(many times teachers too) are shocked when they find out my kids are american. (when do the teachers find out....when their very american parents speak w/their teachers on ther phone for the first time.)they really can not tell they are americans they have integrated so well. I think moving to an anglo enclave is a recipe for disaster for the kids and for you financially. And if you want to work with no work background, be prepared to work for minimum wage...4k a month. That is a reality for many here that they don't expect.

Karnash

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 3:26 am

Tablepoetry - we don't disagree. Those salaries are for teachers who are making a career of their profession and putting in all the effort necessary. Most teachers are women, working mothers who can't or don't want to put in the extra hours. Many male teachers do put in the hours and make decent salaries for their famillies. Then, don't forget the summer months where salary can be further supplemented - there are teachers who are tour guides, camp head counselors, etc.

fiddle

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 3:28 am

I will add about rbs. There is a problem with pedophiles a problem with robberies and cops who don't go anything and otd kids as well as very pricey. However depending on where you put your kids in school compared to where they are coming from is a major thing. Don't put a kid in a Israeli chareidi school of they are coming from a typical American bais yaakov. Don't forget about their each individual need. And lastly don't do this if it's the best thing for you or your dh. If its the best thing for your family as a whole then fine. You will struggle. And the amount of people that go back after a few years is a very high percentage. It's hard here. Expensive. And the way of life is sometimes very difficult. Speak to people who've made yerida and see what happened. Then think about it again and make a decision.

grace413

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 6:31 am

There are OTD kids everywhere.

Mitzpeh Yericho - yishuv of 300 or so families, nice mix of anglos and israelis, private houses and apartments. Currently building new 3 bedroom apartments being advertised for 825,000 shekel. Please note that when you buy a newly constructed apartment in Israel you get 4 walls, a floor, a ceiling, a toilet or two and a tub/shower. You do not get any closets.

Mizpeh Yericho is a 45 minute drive from Jerusalem - when there is no traffic. It's past Maale Adumim on the way to the Dead Sea. They have elementary school and a yeshiva tichonit. There is a direct bus to Jerusalem several times a day and I think maybe one direct bus a day to Maale Adumim. I would say it's right wing DL but not chardal. It's also really hot.

amother

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 6:33 am

amother wrote:

WADR, I do live here and I don't think you should speak of how terrible something is unless you've been here. Yes there are issues but they seem to have more to do with the way parents handle their kids more than anything else, there are also plenty of wonderful anglo families with kids who are thriving. If you are a smart parent interested in your child's best interest and willing to raise them and stand up for them when necessary your kids will be fine. If you are following some dream of your own and expecting your kids to keep up and be raised by the society around them then THAT is a recipe for disaster. I see my relatives who have moved to more Israeli places and there are things about their kids I could never imagine for my kids, so much so that I would not have made aliyah.

Nothing is perfect anywhere and nothing is black and white. Be smart, be a good parent and listen to the needs and feelings of your children, be realistic, realize that everything comes from Hashem, and your kids will have the same shot as any other kid anywhere.