FREEZING house, am I being unreasonable?

Simple1

Sun, Oct 28 2012, 9:29 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I wonder what temperature we are talking about. I grew up in a house where 65 was on the higher end of the thermostat.

My in laws on the other hand, turn down their heat to 68 when they leave the house.

I was thinking of this too. What is comfortable for one family might be too cold for another. This season so far there were many days where we didn't need the heat (or used very little).

chocolate chips

Sun, Oct 28 2012, 11:11 pm

I don't know where your hosts lived but in NY it really is not that freezing
I also haven't really turned on my heat that much since succos and if I get a bit chilly I just wear a sweater.
Tonight was the first time in several weeks that I turned on the heat because of the strong winds and cold coming in from outside. It won't be on over night though and if it is it will be set to 65.

I don't think it was unreasonable from either side. Not every hostess is the best and not every guest is either. Nor is every place you ever stay perfect for you.

Tamiri

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 12:25 am

saw50st8 wrote:

So, here's the thing: keeping your house at a "comfortable temp" is a subjective thing. I live in Israel where 90-degree days have been the norm for the past 4 or 5 months. We turn the a/c on on the office and the boss lady is ALWAYS complaining that she's cold. So, she wears socks and long sleeves. My other co worker and I cannot function if that a/c isn't blasting. Same as with heat: some people get headaches if the thermostat is over 68 while others can't function if it's not at least a toasty 74.
The OP is probably one of the people who like heat and can afford to pay for the luxury of not having to wear a sweater in the house. Did you know, that in traditional homes in places such as Vermont and Maine, where it's COLD, it's totally normal to wear another layer of clothing in the home and very warm clothing to go to bed at night? People don't overheat their homes there and turn down the heat lowwwwwwww for the night. Of course, this is a generality but let's assume it's the norm.
No one gets sick from a cool home. In fact, it's much healthier. Your membranes dry out less, leaving your 1st protective layer against germs active and intact. The reasons people get sick were already noted above.
The host has no obligation to super-heat his home. He should have told the guests that the house is kept cool and suggested they bring warm night clothing and an extra sweater. In Israel, I always tell our winter guests that it's cold in the house and I give them warm blankets. We never sleep with the heat on and probably never will (except when there was a newborn winter baby). Thus, the guests could have been prepared or even turned down the offer.
This thread is leading me to think about all the "I can't make ends meet" threads. How warm DO you ladies think a house should be? And, at what cost? Remember: energy is expensive....

boysrus

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 12:45 am

It really is an interesting discussion. I moved from teh UK to the USA some years ago, and I discovered that here int he US, people are willing to pay more to heat the houses to a much warmer temperature. Many people I know do not ever wear sweaters inside their homes in the winter here. Where I grew up, everybody wore sweaters (jumpers!) inside, that was just what we did!
Back in England we used to heat our house to a maximum of 65 degrees on a really cold day, but then again we did not have such extremes of winter temperatures, it is way colder where I live now (in the winter I mean!) Here people talk about being frugal and trying not to turn the thermostat higher than 68 degrees which I find is really funny. only problem is that my kids have got used to the luxurious American style heating temperatures, so they find it really difficult when we go back to visit family in the UK ...

So, conclusion of my post is: It 's all about what you are used to OP. Sorry, you were uncomfortable adn got sick, it is not always easy being a guest...

Isramom8

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 2:00 am

When I visited NY after having lived in Israel for a few years, I found the houses to be sickeningly overheated in the winter! In Israel when it's cold people wear 3 layers at home. In the US and Europe, buildings are heated to the point of people needing only 1 layer inside. Then when they go outside they bundle up. When you come and go and come and go, and should be constantly adjusting the number of clothing layers you have on, that's how you can get sick. Plus, in my experience, it's very inconvenient as well as stifling.

That said, Israelis do heat their homes a "little". As a guest, you can offer to pay the hosts for the extra heat they will be using on your behalf. A couple with a newborn once stayed in my neighbor's empty apartment and for some reason wanted the rooms very hot, so they paid them for the cost of the heating that would require.

edited my typos

Last edited by Isramom8 on Mon, Oct 29 2012, 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tablepoetry

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 2:45 am

You weren't unreasonable to ask, if it was really that cold (if it were just a bit chilly, I wouldn't say anything).

But as others have said, this wasn't a regular host/guest situation. He was doing a favor. Maybe he got pressured or guilt-tripped into it. He probably thought he was going enough out of his way without paying extra for heating too.

As for Israel....I've actually found that Israelis tend to rely a lot - too much - on artificial a/c. In the summer, all the offices, shops, classrooms, and half the homes are freezing. In the winter, most people DO heat their houses. I haven't seen anyone walking around with 3 layers at home.
Then again, sometimes I see pics on facebook from friends in freezing countries, and their kids are wandering about barefoot in the dead of winter. So I guess some countries heat a lot more than the standard here.

Anyway, it was a one-time deal, so I guess you won't have this issue again.

etky

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 4:11 am

Where we live it gets quite cold and windy in the winter (by Israeli standards, that is. We're not talking Minnesota here). We do heat our home (we have a gas Junkers system), but not extravagantly and we turn off the heat before we go to bed. You should see how many layers of bed clothes and blankets I have on.
My kids rooms are b"h less exposed to the weather. Leaving the heat on overnight is just not an option. Costs of all modes of heating have skyrocketed here. Even during the day I have on at least 2 layers even with the heat, and even though our house is considered extremely comfortable by people who drop by or come over. It is much warmer than many of our neighbors homes who just do not heat at all or have something very minimal. I expect to be freezing wherever I go and dress accordingly. Even when we go out for Shabbat meals I bundle up and make sure all the kids are too because you never know what the heating situation or lack thereof will be. That shul, or any public gathering area for that matter, will be freezing is a given too. And we live in an established, relatively well off community. Heating is just not an affordable commodity.
That said - I am much happier to freeze in someones house in the winter because I can always bundle up (I come prepared). In the summer, however, I suffer terribly from lack of a/c., and we live in relativity cool climes. I would 100% not go anywhere for Shabbat in the coastal area (or Beit Shemesh for that matter) if they didn't have air conditioning.

shoeboxgirly

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 5:25 am

Apologies if this isn't useful, I haven't read all the replies so far.

My parents were visiting this week, and my dad always feels the cold, but he was seriously complaining about it, I was a little bit colder than usual, went to check the boiler and the heating had failed. I would have just ignored it if it weren't for the complaining, but thankfully I didn't and the boiler man came and fixed it just before Shabbos so we weren't freezing over the weekend.

I would hope that if my guests were cold they would say, there could be all kinds of reasons (like the window isn't shut properly) and if I can fix the issues or at least give them an extra blanket I of course would.

Isramom8

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 8:18 am

Israelis in my area use air conditioning a lot more than they use heating. If I could afford to, I'd have air conditioning on 24/7 in all the rooms for about two thirds of the year. Heating is something I put on in one or two rooms for a little while, for about two to three months out of the year.

Right now it's blazing hot. I'm being very disciplined about not turning on my a/c right now. I'm wearing my lightest-weight clothes.

Last edited by Isramom8 on Mon, Oct 29 2012, 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 8:39 am

Hi I'm the op. Thanks for all comments. OK so it doesn't sound like there's right or wrong answer.
Just to clarify the host is definitely in much better financial position by the look of their house and cars, what they served for meals and the kinds of clothing they wear. Actually much well to do than most people in my community. But I take many of your point that they were doing people favour by hosting us.

The weekend we stayed, the temperature was like low 40s in the evenings, high40s during the day. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some heating during the night. I set my house at around 64, I don't like overheating our house either and it was definitely colder so I suspect either their thermostat were off or had it like 60. Maybe it's different in Maine or Canada, but I always thought people wear sweaters when they go outside. I mean what do they wear outside if they're already wearing sweaters. And I'm not talking about dressing gown on top of PJ or nightdress. We knew it was going to be cold outside so we bought our winter coat and that was it. So there was no way we ould put on our witer coats inside the house.

sorry for the vent. I think we just weren't prepared for the temperature.

Tamiri

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 8:45 am

This is how you layer to keep warm: undershirt. long sleeve shirt. sweatshirt. You can peel off layers when you feel warm, add them when you feel cold. When you go out, you can add a coat.
On the feet: socks. sweatpants with/without skirt. or leggings if that's more comfortable. If you are sitting doing nothing active (reading, watching etc.) a blanket covers the lower half of your body.
It's not really so much a money thing as a health thing. Overheated homes are a breeding ground for germs and bacteria. It's a good idea to under-heat, occasionally open the window to get the air moving etc.
Also, there really is a difference in the way people perceive cold. Some people just aren't tolerant at all.

imasinger

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 9:12 am

It sounds like a culture clash to me. We live in Boston, and we don't plan on turning on our heat for a while -- if I can hold off till the end of November, DH will be thrilled. (We do have money, but prefer to save it so that we can pay our full share of tuition for our kids.)

A month ago, when my BIL came from Manhattan to visit us for RH, it was much warmer outside and inside than it is now -- but I still brought a space heater upstairs to the room we were giving him, because after a few years of complaining that anything we had done wasn't warm enough for his comfort, that was just the easiest solution.

I have a list of things I like to do when we have guests -- after this thread, I think I will add the space heater to the list on a regular basis for the hothouse flowers who come our way.

When we used to visit my IL's in Manhattan (a"h), we always had to open the windows of the rooms we slept in so that we didn't stifle. To each his own.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 9:30 am

Isramom8 wrote:

Israelis in my area use air conditioning a lot more than they use heating. If I could afford to, I'd have air conditioning on 24/7 in all the rooms for about two thirds of the year. Heating is something I put on in one or two rooms for a little while, for about two to three months out of the year.

Right now it's blazing hot. I'm being very disciplined about not turnoing on my a/c right now. I'm wearing my lightest-weight clothes.

Isramom8 is correct. It depends where you live and so many things. Where I live now, there is maybe one or two weeks in the summer that we boil with no a/c, but the rest of the summer is lovely. The winter on the other hand we NEED the heat. It is on when we are in the house, otherwise, it is not comfortable at all. Forget layering, its uncomfortable to the point of not wanting to be in the house. Its freezing. Its not like that where we lived two years ago. There it was almost impossible in the hot months without an a/c but in the cold months we needed the heat maybe 3 times.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 9:33 am

boysrus wrote:

I agree with you boysrus. My husband grew up in south arica. It never gets crazy cold there but the house is not insulated properly and the windows do not close. They have no heat in the house. Let me tell you, even though I grew up in new jersey where it gets pretty darn cold in the winter, it was painful in his parent's house because they just did not have heat. There house was colder inside than the weather was outside.
It definitely is cultural. They just layered and were fine. I personally wanted to stay in the warm bathtub till we left Smile

Liba

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 10:15 am

amother wrote:

Maybe it's different in Maine or Canada, but I always thought people wear sweaters when they go outside. I mean what do they wear outside if they're already wearing sweaters.

When it is cold outside we put on coats over our sweaters (which we wear inside) to go outside. If it is very cold we put on scarves and hats and gloves as well.

If you are cold there is no shame in wearing your coat inside the house. You already told them it was cold and they could certainly see that you weren't dressed appropriately. It might have made them realize that they need to warn guests that they need sweaters or turned up the heat for guests in the future.

FWIW I hate turning on the heat or air conditioning for guests. I do it, but I know from past experience that if we turn it on it is really hard to get used to having it back off again. It doesn't raise our bill just for that shabbos, but often for days or weeks after until we manage to get used to our regular temperatures and wearing layers (or being hot depending on the season) again.

etky

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 10:41 am

Liba wrote:

amother wrote:

Maybe it's different in Maine or Canada, but I always thought people wear sweaters when they go outside. I mean what do they wear outside if they're already wearing sweaters.

Very interesting point. Never realized it but you are right. DH usually is the "bad guy' who insists we go back to our more spartan heating practices - then again he doesn't mind the cold as much as I do. On the especially cold nights (like when I can't sleep because my face is cold) we do leave a small electric radiator on in our bedroom to take the chill off and that helps. The kids' rooms face south and east and are much warmer.

greenfire

Mon, Oct 29 2012, 12:48 pm

I have yet to wonder why people freeze themselves with air-conditioning & then complain about the heat being too low in the cooler weather Confused

sure when it gets to 40 degrees you need some heat - but what are you going to do when it's below 32 & snowing if you need the temps high now ?!

people get sick from the shock of overheating indoors & it being cold outdoors ... so keeping a balance is best and layering keeps you warm inside & outside ...