asei lecho Rov | Imamother

gryp

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:23 pm

the system is actually quite amazing if you think about it. if every young person has a mashpia to talk to about everyday problems, then they will have an extra drive and extra encouragement in doing whats right. all of their mashpiahs, are now a role model, and will work extra hard in doing whats right in order to be a proper influence. and those mashpiahs also have their own mashpiahs of the older generation, to discuss their everyday challenges, etc.
so basically it becomes a ladder in which everybody should be involved in both encouraging and being encouraged in the right direction.

Motek

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:33 pm

stem, this my post in response to yours which disappeared in which you wrote that it sounds like in Lubavitch, one person fills all roles while with you, a rav answers shailas and your rosh yeshiva answers hashkafa questions, and if you had a chinuch problem you'd consult with a friend etc.

what I wrote was:

no, it's like you describe

a rav for halachic questions and another person for spiritual guidance

though it's possible for the one person to serve both roles for a man, I.e. his rav might provide him with both halachic guidance as well as spiritual guidance

and it's not specifically about "problems"

as the thread in the link I posted explains, a mashpia is the person to whom you give a spiritual accounting

stem

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:37 pm

I just wrote a whole post, and it got deleted. The basic gist of it was that for non-lubavitchers like me there is no specific mashpia who advises us on every problem in my life. My husband and I have a posek who we ask our halacha shailas, his rosh yeshiva advises us on hashkafa and lifestyle issues, and if I have a question regarding the children I would ask a relative or competent friend. If it ever happened (I can't imagine how) that there would be a problem that I couldn't discuss with my husband, I would try to find a person in my life that I could turn to.
If lubavitch has a method of mashpias that work, then that's great, but I feel bad for amother who feels like her life is incomplete without one. It doesn't work for everyone, there are other ways to find solutions and advise.

stem

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:40 pm

Quote:

a mashpia is the person to whom you give a spiritual accounting

Report Post

Sorry, I am not familiar with mashpia (I'm sure there are others on this board too). Do you mean that you have to turn to them with your spiritual concerns (like how to find time for davening, how to feel more spiritual, etc.) I don't see why your husband can't be your guide and support?!

juggler

Sun, May 15 2005, 1:18 pm

I once heard Dr. Twerski say that if everyone had a mashpia, then he would have half as many patients (before you attack me, no he was not referring to those with serious mental illnesses, more to those who see psychologists to vent and get guidance and work through issues etc...)

Anyway, lots of people, even those with a mashpia, ask advice from a number of people who they look up to. But the mashpia is like the central clearing house. For example, a person can have a cardiologist, a rheumatologist, an ob/gyn etc... but it is extremely helpful to have one family doctor who oversees the whole treatment and sees the bigger picture. Here too, a person can ask advice from a number of people in different areas (and no one mashpia is perfect in everything, after all they are also human), but the mashpia is the one who sees (and should be shown) the overall picture. And most mashpiim have no problem with a mushpa (the person who they 'counsel') asking others for advice as well, but the mushpa would usually come back and run it by her mashpia anyway either as an update or to ask her opinion etc...

Motek

Sun, May 15 2005, 4:00 pm

1stimer wrote:

U give ur mashpia a spiritual accounting e.g. today I did this mitzva but I did that aveira?

it's unlikely that one would report on a daily basis

if you think of it like the mashgiach in yeshiva with whom a talmid has a personal relationship, you should get it

stem wrote:

Sorry, I am not familiar with mashpia (I'm sure there are others on this board too).

that's why the link I provided earlier should help

Quote:

Do you mean that you have to turn to them with your spiritual concerns (like how to find time for davening, how to feel more spiritual, etc.) I don't see why your husband can't be your guide and support?!

which is why I said that's okay

it's just that as amother points out, her husband asked whether he'd be objective, so it's possible that one's husband is not the ideal candidate

also, it might not be the nature of their relationship or he might not be knowledgeable enough himself, for him to fill this role

amother

Sun, May 15 2005, 5:26 pm

actually he is very knowledgeable and very capable of looking up that which he doesn't know.
Its more that I need someone who can help apply it when the situation is not so clear cut and one needs an objective opinion.
and lets not get so dramatic, I don't feel my life is "incomplete" without one, just that there are times I feel, "I wish I had someone to talk to about this"
My friends are great but don't always know how to deal with my complicated thoughts.

Last edited by amother on Sun, May 15 2005, 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, May 15 2005, 5:30 pm

also what motek said it might not be the nature of our relationship.. I didn't go into marriage thinking I was marrying a teacher and I in a way I don't feel comfortable with my husband getting involved in certain issues of my spiritual welfare. As RG says it may not be healthy for Sholom Bayis.
What if I come to him about something, he guides me and I need to go at my own pace but the next thing I know he may be saying, so hows it going, I thought you said you would try to do more of whatever. I don't need that, I don't want to end up being policed.

Rivkie81

Wed, May 18 2005, 1:33 pm

I think that for a man, a Mashpia does guide them in spiritual matters and a man would tell his Mashpia about his progress in learning, for example. I do know some women who have Mashpias like that, they ask them how they should prepare for Yud Shevat, let's say, but I think most women use their Mashpias for advice, moral support, and more Hashkafa topics.

I really do think a Mashpia is important and B"H I consider myself lucky to have one. I found it especially useful when I was going out and it's a very good thing to have an objective opinion because parents are great (Mine are!) but obviously they're subjective. It's not always easy to find though. You really have to feel comfortable talking to them about personal things.

roza

Sun, May 22 2005, 1:06 am

from Lazer Brody

Quote:

Ten guidelines for choosing your personal rabbi and spiritual guide:
1. Has this person been ordained by recognized scholars of high moral stature?

2. Does this person invest the bulk of his time in Torah study, prayer, and spiritual development?

3. Does this person have a simple, spiritual-oriented (as opposed to material-oriented) lifestyle?

4. Does this person possess positive character traits, and does he practice everything that he preaches?

5. Does this person display love and compassion for his fellow man, regardless of station or status in life? In other words, is he just as kind and compassionate toward the neighborhood street sweeper as he is to the wealthy members of the community?

6. Does this person understand you, and recognize your individual strengths and weaknesses?

7. Can you love, trust, and respect this person even when he reprimands you?

8. Do you have access to this person, and do you feel comfortable asking him questions?

9. Do you feel that this person gives you worthwhile advice and helps you succeed? Do you like hearing what this person has to say? Do you feel uplifted when you take this person's advice?

10. Does your spouse trust this person as much as you do?

The more you answer "yes" to the above questions, the greater your chances of success. Choosing a family rabbi and spiritual guide is in many ways more critical than choosing a family doctor, lawyer, or CPA. Be careful, because the wrong spiritual guide can cause you untold anguish, heaven forbid, while the right spiritual guide can help make your life heaven on earth.