Is it Acceptable to Dress in Costumes that Offend Others?

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 7:48 am

chavs wrote:

Historic ppl, like Esther Hamalka for example or Moshe or known queens or kings or scientists, if you want to go generic for example, Victorian looking ppl,or medieval ppl, Tudors etc.
How is that the same as Native Americans?

If somebody chooses to dress up as a native American, I promise you he does so cuz of the historical part and not with any intention to upset anybody...
People shouldn't stand with a magnifying glass and try to find things to get insulted about... sorry, I´m finding it pretty ridiculous...

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 7:49 am

amother wrote:

I disagree.

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 7:51 am

amother wrote:

People sometimes unintentionally upset people. That's why we're able to learn from the fact that some say it's offensive.

dancingqueen

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:19 am

amother wrote:

Ok so to all the people who find it ridiculous that other minorities get offended by a costume- would you all be so ok with, for example, a black kid dressing up as a chassid for Halloween?

Simple1

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:20 am

amother wrote:

I agree most people I know have absolutely no clue that it's offensive, they think it's just a historical figure. They are not on this site, so they won't even know by reading this.

Simple1

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:21 am

dancingqueen wrote:

Ok so to all the people who find it ridiculous that other minorities get offended by a costume- would you all be so ok with, for example, a black kid dressing up as a chassid for Halloween?

I already posted twice about this and so did some others. I'd think it's pretty cool, as long as they are friendly and not mocking.

I'll also add my disclaimer that I do not plan to dress my kids as native americans.

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:31 am

amother wrote:

Or l'non jews ladies.

This was my comment, I can assure you that's not what I said. Thank you moderator.

Two points -
- The thread is about justifying behaviors in order to insult other people/cultures. All these gently bigoted comments are fine. Citing a pasuk as mussar? NO!
- At least capitalize Jews.

Simple1

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

I personally am not justifying my own behavior - I am not using a Native American costume. But I am defending the behaviors of those who do it because they have no idea that it is offensive. I feel that they have no reason to even think it would be offensive unless it's pointed out. And they are not reading this forum, so they won't even know it now.

Barbara

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:40 am

Squishy wrote:

The question is are you making fun of them. Dressing as a pregnant nun is not the same as dressing as a nun.

It appears one is allowed to dress as an Indian when it is the Native Americans who sell the costume. I don't see the difference between wearing a costume sold by Native Americans and wearing a copy sold by Walmart.

I can see putting chocolate casino chips along with booze in the MM as being offensive, but a costume deemed "kosher" by tribal authorities is fine.

This is the only known image of Pocahontas

Will anyone be dressing their child like that?

From what I've read in connection with researching my responses, she would have most likely been naked, or had little clothing, and had most of her hair shaved as a child. I'm virtually certain that no one is taking their child out stark naked to deliver shaloch manot, and saying, "Oh, its a Native American theme!"

This is the closest I've seen to an image of what her attire would have been when older (placed in a spoiler because she isn't wearing a top):

Hidden:

People aren't dressing their kids as Native Americans. They're dressing their kids as some Disney-fied fantasy.

In the end, though, what it comes down to for me is that, each Halloween, I read dozens of comments from Native American friends about how hurtful and offensive they find the costumes. Why would I want to do something that I know will be hurtful to someone else, when its so easy to avoid?

Barbara

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:45 am

Simple1 wrote:

I agree most people I know have absolutely no clue that it's offensive, they think it's just a historical figure. They are not on this site, so they won't even know by reading this.

But plenty of people here are taking the position that they don't really care who is offended by their costumes and, further, claiming that people have no right to be offended. That's not having "absolutely no clue." Its not egocentricism and caring who you hurt.

Simple1

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:46 am

This is what I think of when OP said Indian costume:
http://www.wondercostumes.com/.....SYAtg

Is that offensive? Pocahontas is a whole different look that I'm not familiar with, but the one I linked to seems to be typical and innocently worn by kids (not by mine Smile

Barbara

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 8:50 am

Simple1 wrote:

The feather in particular would be seen as offensive by many Native Americans.

Barbara

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 9:06 am

DrMom wrote:

Feathers are offensive?
To whom, birds?

Your willful ignorance is astonishing, as is your mocking of the proud traditions of another culture.

Quote:

A feather isn’t just something that falls out of a bird, it means much more. The feather symbolizes trust, honor, strength, wisdom, power, freedom and many more things. To be given one of these is to be hand picked out of the rest of the men in the tribe - it’s like getting a gift from a high official.

Quote:

The only way an Indian can actually get one of these feathers is by doing a brave deed, like fighting off a bear or going up against the enemy. They were never allowed to wear the feather until they went in front of their tribal court and retold the story of their victory. It was at this time that they were allowed to put it in their headpiece. Only chieftains, warriors, and braves have ever been awarded this special gift.

That headdress, to a Native American, would be like a 6 year old dragging around an actual Torah, open on the floor. Hey, its just a book, isn't it? Who is it important to, a librarian?

DrMom

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 9:14 am

Barbara,

A feather is a natural found object. I find feathers on the ground all the time (lots of feral cats in Israel...). Anyone can pick up a feather and do anything he wants with it. I am not defacing the feather by turning it into a pen, or attaching it to my head, or incorporating it into a feather boa.

Druids thought trees were sacred. Some cultures worship the sun or the moon. Hindus think cows are sacred.

Really, this is simply PC gone amuck.

33055

Tue, Jan 21 2014, 9:34 am

Barbara wrote:

This is the only known image of Pocahontas

Hidden:

I can understand you wouldn't want to offend your friends. What do they feel about historically accurate garb sold by other Native Americans? Is this acceptable to them?