Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

Hellothere

Fri, May 06 2016, 7:35 pm

amother wrote:

I am blessed with a great lawyer. When doing research on lawyers, and ultimately choosing the same one, we have become acquainted. I do not know that all that she has written is false. I do know that she had made statements that have been proven to be untrue. She glossed beautifully about her marriage to "Zeke" while things were sour when that article was written. Wishing everyone happy marriages and a life of truth and meaning. Shabbat Shalom.

She didn't have to go into details about her marriage so she left them out. What's wrong with that? She didn't need to tell the world anything se didn't want to. Is zeke not his real name?

amother

Firebrick

Sun, May 08 2016, 1:45 pm

Even if there would be Loshan Hora on someone who is OTD and even if someone who wrote a book about themselves and put their life out for open scrutiny has a right to privacy if LV is going through a messy divorce it is important for people to know. For two reasons (1) so that her book can be put in a proper perspective. It isn't only her frum family she can't get along with(2) So people should realize that those who go OTD don't seem to find happiness afterwards. According to Footsteps the majority of the OTD crowd ends up contemplating suicide. Somehow the American dream eludes them. And as Leah Vincent once wrote she doesn't disagree with those who say it is because Hashem is punishing them.

miami85

Sun, May 08 2016, 3:16 pm

Hellothere wrote:

I recently read this book. My heart did ache for Leah. I want to add that she has a brother that is secular like her and he has said that everything she writes in her book is true. I feel that the yeshivish velt tends to side quickly with parents even without proof that the parents are right. Her father could've told his side of the story just like Leah told hers but he chose not to. So all we know is what Leah wrote in her book. I find it sad that her parents sent such a naive girl out of the house to be own her own in NY at such a young age. If you ask a secular teen if it's easy to be dropped in NY when you don't know anyone, they will probably tell you it's lonely and difficult. All to often, children are sent away from home bc they're rebellious. Her brother was also sent away from home at a young age. Today he is a lawyer, married with children and is 10000% secular. Maybe that's old style parenting. But I think you need to be a very tough person to do that to your own child so that's why I believe Leah that her parents were so cold hearted. I'm aware her father is a modern orthodox rabbi but he obviously brought up his kids yeshivish. Very sad story.

I know him personally, I don't think this is true. I think he is regular Orthodox/yeshivishe.

Maya

Sun, May 08 2016, 3:25 pm

amother wrote:

(1) So getting divorced is indicative of not being able to get along with people? How naive of you.

(2) People who leave insular communities most certainly find happiness elsewhere. Can you also direct me as to where Footsteps writes that a MAJORITY of their members contemplate suicide? I'd be interested in seeing that.
And even if that's true, perhaps it's the pain they suffered during their time in the insular community, or the great suffering it takes to get out of one, that causes one to contemplate suicide?

And just because Leah or whoever agrees with an idiotic statement like the one you made about Hashem punishing, doesn't mean it actually makes sense.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that people fall for ultra orthodox propaganda. It's sad really.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, May 08 2016, 3:44 pm

Maya wrote:

(1) So getting divorced is indicative of not being able to get along with people? How naive of you.

(2) People who leave insular communities most certainly find happiness elsewhere. Can you also direct me as to where Footsteps writes that a MAJORITY of their members contemplate suicide? I'd be interested in seeing that.
And even if that's true, perhaps it's the pain they suffered during their time in the insular community, or the great suffering it takes to get out of one, that causes one to contemplate suicide?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that people fall for ultra orthodox propaganda. It's sad really.

When someone like Leah Vincent, who never got along with anyone else, gets divorced it becomes much harder to believe that the others in her life were always wrong.

See this link

http://zeek.forward.com/articles/117904/

Surely you don't consider Footsteps or Leah Vincent ultra orthodox propaganda.

No matter what I write I know frum society will be blamed for the high suicide/misery rate/other problems amongst the OTD crowd.

As one of my favorite (semi) OTD people (Menachem Begin) once put it "non jews kill non jews and the world runs to hang the Jews for it"

Hellothere

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:08 pm

amother wrote:

Firebrick, you may be right. But you seem to just be assuming things based on snippets on info you hear from zeke. To say that because Leah is getting divorced means that she can't get along with people is a very harsh statement. Her and zeke were together for several years before getting a divorce, and I haven't heard that from anyone else besides you, btw. So if it's true that they're getting divorced, than it takes 2. Its not like divorce is a strange thing in our society or in secular society for that matter. You said you were getting divorced, so if you were secular, would both those things combined make you a liar? Also, I would like to point out that you say that Leah couldn't get along with her family and now with Zeke like you're proving that she's a difficult person to get along with. Many, many people don't get along with their parents but they don't write books so you don't know about it. Also, I would like to know what makes her divorce more "miserable" than others? Most divorces are very difficult.

imasoftov

Sun, May 08 2016, 5:44 pm

amother wrote:

What use do you expect people to do with this "important information". Miserable people considering going OTD will decide to stay with the misery they already know? Or perhaps they should commit suicide while still appearing to be frum so it can be written off as an accident?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, May 08 2016, 11:19 pm

amother wrote:

Transitions are extremely difficult for lots of people. Think of when you switch jobs, moves from one city to another, or make any major changes in your life, etc how hard is it to change gears and get used to something new? Making the transition from an insular community to the outside world would be very difficult for anyone, even you. This is especially if you are not educated, haven't watched tv or know much about sports, singers, or anything else that could help you bond with the people in your community. Learning how to dress appropriately in the new community, how to socialize with people, how to interact with people from the opposite gender as yourself, etc would take a long time. Unfortunately, this world is not such a forgiving world and if you don't have the skills and knowledge to succeed then you will be left behind and forgotten. Add this to the fact that many families cut off anyone who goes otd and you have individuals who are going to struggle for a long time and be miserable until they acquire the skills they need to be independent.
I don't think that Leah has it as bad as people who grew up in more insular communities where they don't really get an education. In fact, Leah was very lucky, yes, lucky that she got a Modern Orthodox education and was able to go to college and later on to graduate school with full scholarships because of it. So Leah is not the right person to use as a role model and I would think that it is too soon to tell if anyone can be fully successful outside of their insular community since it takes a long time to learn how to be independent (most people learn how to be independent in 25-30 years give or take a few years depending on the person).
But if you are concerned about them and really want to help them, then perhaps you can ask their communities to start educating all their kids better, allow the kids to develop other skills and talents they may have, and get rid of all the restrictions that have nothing to do with religion, only then would we be able to really judge if these kids are mentally ill or not. The communities that are handicapping these kids by restricting them and not allowing them to develop into educated, independent adults, should perhaps be liable for every single suicide that occurs since they could have done things differently to prevent these suicides but refused and that is just sad.

imasoftov

Mon, May 09 2016, 4:32 am

amother wrote:

And? In a very short time I bet that 5 non-OTD committed suicide. Everyone has their inner struggles.

When non-OTDs (or not-yets) commit suicide, it's hushed up. And if someone tries to talk about it, they are asked to stop because it's LH, none of their business, hurts the families, ...

But if an OTD person has any problems at all, it "is important for people to know".

But it's not just to keep the sheep in line, it's that when most of what you want to say about other people has been forbidden, and suddenly you find someone you *can* badmouth, it's such a relief that you can finally speak freely and feel like a tzadekes about it ...

marina

Mon, May 09 2016, 8:55 am

amother wrote:

Yes, many OTD people have trouble adjusting to their new lives. Just like anyone who moves to a new country. And yes some people have depression or the like- like many frum people. But no, I don't think most OTD pple are suicidal at all.

And your post is offensive and inaccurate. Have you reviewed the MANY MANY MANY depressed and suicidal posts in this forum? Can I just conclude that religion doesn't bring happiness and that God is punishing frum people? Ugh. Gross.