Dds school said my shaitel is too long

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:52 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I honestly see npothing wrong with this. The only reason a girl would be "shamed' is if her parents weren't responsible enough to actually LISTEN TO THE RULES. You go there, respect the rules! Gosh, I don't understand this.

Long hair isn't tzniyus according to their rabanim. They also want to upkeep the image of a frummer school. If they have girls with long hair, or even one girl with long hair- even if they keep it in a pony in school, they may let it loose after. Prancing around in their uniform with long unkept hair- they don't want anyone having such an image come to mind when they think "is this the right fit for my daughter".

It's prefectly normal. It's not crazy to want all the girls in your school to project a image of a bas yisroel. And if according to your rabanim and a lot of the people who send there that'
s the image, so ....yeah.

It's quite ironic. The only people that seem tro be complaining are people who don't even send their kids there. I'm confused....is a school in another state with rules you don't like offending you? I mean, you didn't choose to go there....

Dont know

But yeah, just complain. It's horrible, etc. Chatterbox

I heard about this from a friend in Lakewood. Her friends, including people who send to the school, were unhappy with this. None of them seemed to be familiar with the Halacha or rabbis who held that little girls, especially little girls who wear their hair in ponytails at school (you could see the dents in the photo) have to keep their hair short. You don't speak for everyone.

The fact is that you can have long, beautifully cared for hair, or short, unkempt hair. The dichotomy you set up is false.

What do they do with the girls with curly hair? Do they stretch it out to measure? Are they stuck with basically crew cuts?

Its hair. Its going to grow. Are they measuring once a week? Its ridiculous.

amother

Olive

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:53 am

amother wrote:

I don't know if this is helpful or not, being from a very different community. But I went to a coed MO school where we had no uniform but pretty strictly enforced dress rules. The biggest issue (as always) was skirt length.

If someone's skirt was too short, and they passed the wrong teacher/administrator, they would get the famous gesture (you know, finger wiggle that means "come here"). Nothing was even said after that. You just knew you had to head downstairs to get the "office skirt", and spend the rest of the day wearing a one size fits all bis skirt.

Some girls had the stomach for this game of chance, some had no issue conforming to the rules. But I never had the sense that anyone was shamed or horrified. We spun the wheel, and either won or paid the price. Incidentally, we were also not allowed to wear sneakers, and got charged $5 for that.

I'm not sure why there is so much humiliation and shame associated with this. We all laugh fondly about the office skirt today, an amusing rite of passage....

Is there an appreciable difference in this situation that I am not picking up on?

Sorry, anonymous because anyone who went here knows automatically what school this is....

Mine didn't have the no-sneakers rule, but I think every MO school must have an office skirt!

I only wore it once when I was in upper elementary school and the bathroom I was in flooded while my skirt was around my ankles but I was barely over 4 feet at the time and had to have it hiked up to my armpits and pinned since it was meant to be long on a high schooler LOL

I guess any high schoolers caught later that day got off without having to wear it since it was already in use.

LovesHashem

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 11:08 am

amother wrote:

Even if the moms aren't happy. You CHOSE to go to this school. I'm so confused...are there like people putting guns to your head to send your kids there? Forget halacha or rabanim. It's a sensitivity. You may not of heard of it, but it exists. Certainly where I live in Israel it's very well known. I didn't mean to say long hair is always unkept. But they don't want loose long hair to be the symbol of the school. Every child who romas around with their uniform somewhat represents the school, on some level.

I myself have curly hair. Don't be stupid, they don't stretch it.
They said they do lice checks every 2 months...so I guess...

amother

Olive

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 11:22 am

amother wrote:

It is a prevalent fact that Sheitels and hair has become MUCH MUCH longer than anytime previously by all Yiddisha communities. The schools and Rabbonim need to make us aware that this is not AIDEL. It is not the inch up or down, look around, Moms and girls are wearing their hair and shaitels extremely long.
"Azoi vi s'goyisht zich , azoi yiddisht zich"
SOMEBODY needs to make us aware, if we don't do it ourselves. Believe me, it is very uncomfortable for the school staff to make these calls. It is very uncomfortable to do these length checks in school. Trust me!!!! I'm part of staff.

Sheitels I don't know about, but hair has always been worn long. I remember a pair of sisters I knew growing up in the 90s who were among the most aidel girls I knew- and from a more right-wing background than I- who always wore their hair past their waists, braided. Why on earth can't schools mandate braids for girls whose hair is long enough? They were good enough for generations past and they're even good enough now for Meah Shearim from what I've seen.

amother

Puce

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 11:25 am

amother wrote:

Most people out of meah shearim wouldn't want to be caught dead with long braided hair. And these girls keep it braided always, right until the day of their wedding. Even for their engagement.

Although I don't agree with this school's policy, it's definitely a fact that loose hair has gone longer and longer over the years...

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 11:29 am

amother wrote:

Actually most non-Jews I know are far too refined for the long flowing hair you see in many wigs. But that doesn't make it the job of the school to enforce arbitrary rules. Modesty is like class - either you have it by or you don't. It's hard to define, much less to teach.

LittleDucky

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 11:47 am

LovesHashem wrote:

What if you started sending when your daughter was 3... Now she is 13 and in 8th grade. Since they changed the rule this year (or last year) are you supposed to uproot your daughter from her friends and school because the SCHOOL changed on you? You followed the rules 100% when you started but now don't agree with them...
Plus there are all the other issues with Lakewood that you can't easily switch your child's school. And if you switch in elementary imagine the difficulties trying to get in a place for high school...

This isn't Halacha. This is trying to out frum the next school.

And don't tell me that "hair has gotten longer" or "we are less tzniyus than 20 years ago"--- have you see UNAltered pictures of BY schools of 20 or 30 or more years ago? I have and have seen one BY school's yearbooks/class photos over the years and boy we are way more tzniyus then previously. Some didn't cover their knees, elbows, collarbones...

amother

Lilac

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 12:07 pm

I would also like to address the "scary" story that is floating around the web as being disseminated by bnos Yaakov. As an educator, I would probably not say a story like that to girls in elementary school, but I might bring it up to a highschool class. Yes, it depicts more of the onesh side of mitzvah observance, and not the schar side. And yes, the imagery is frightening. But so is the story of the mabul! So is the story of Rabbi Amnon, author of the U'nesaneh Tokef tefillah you will all be saying very soon, and which all your children will be learning before Rosh Hashana. Our yiddishkeit has a lot that is beautiful and "feel good," but there IS a concept of onesh/consequences for not observing mitzvos, which is part of Hashem's hanhagas holam, and no less beautiful. And children need to learn that there will be consequences for misdeeds, not all the time, in smaller doses, but they DO need to internalize it, or you're not doing them any favor.

shariy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 1:50 pm

amother wrote:

Okay, long hair is NOT a halacha. If you think it is please show me a source from Chazal or Shulchan aruch. As far as I know it isn't. Covering ones knees IS halacha therefore I understand why there is a concept of wearing skirts four inches below the knee to ensure that halacha is kept. Knees are an erva, hair for a single girl is NOT and there's a reason it isn't till she's married. But to say that long hair is an aveira as you imply and there's a punishment for it is sick I'm sorry!! I happen to wear shorter shietels not cuz I think it's a halacha but because I was educated in a manner in which I understood that it's not refined and it's praiseworthy to have shorter hair/wig but to stuff it down a girls throat like that is not the way. It's all a matter of how you teach it. If we teach our girls that we should try to be refined and how beautiful tzniyus is I think all the other sensitivities will follow. Rulers will not work in my opinion especially when it's not a halacha, this is Not Christianity we don't make up our own Halalchos sorry! I believe that we should teach our children about consequences of not observing Halachos and even that has to be taught correctly but not made up halachos!! Focusing on the BEAUTY of Yiddishkeit will cause them to want to be refined and tzniyusdik.

LovesHashem

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 2:05 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

You know I was in a high school that "changed on me" and so was my sister. Overnight suddenly we had to wear chatzayit emtzah....I think that's 6 inches below the knee? I don't remember. But we had all sorta of changes....and guess what. THAT'S LIFE

Here's a bunch of reasons why the complaining about this and the news it's getting is riduclous.

1. Most of the people complaining are not from the school.
2. Most of the comments I've seen online, youtube, YWN, whatapp have been "barbaric" "dehumanizing" etc. I just explained why that isn't true, it may be mean for the school to turn on you...but it doesn't sound like this is a new thing....or is it? Even if it is, it's not barabaic, at least not the action of measuring- the action of changing the rules suddenly might be...But if so...
3. I have seen little to no complaints about the fact that this was forced upon the student bosdy as a new rule. Most of the complaints are just bashing chumros...which is stupid to be honest.
4. If you are complaining, and are a parent, and it's a new rule...tell me why are you complaining on YWN? Do you think the school is reading the comments or something?Call up the school like a mentsh and tell them you are struggling to understand why new rules are being imposed on you that haven't been there for the past few years.

OH FOR WHOEVER SAYS LONG HAIR ISN'T A PROBLEM is woefully misguided. I read the YWN article and was shocked to say the least. I do not know the sources, but a few years ago when I was younger and struggling with my hair I was given an entire list of sources, the main one from the zohar about how a woman's hair is very holy and has a great power (think it said something else too).

Please I honestly don't feel like finding the sources, but I am telling you I know there is. I have a few friends who grew up MO and became yeshivish, one only wears her hair in a braid. She went from skirts that didn't cover her knees to braids and button down shirts. Anyway these friends read tens of books, listened to hundreds of shuirs, and are people who will only follow things if they see the sources and understand them completely. Anyway there's totally sources for it, and if you cared enough about getting them you'd ask a Rabbi, not a online forum. But from what I understand- it isn't ASSUR, but not recommended. As in sources show it brings bad upon the world, etc, and I don't know what anymore...but I don't think any say if you wear long hair you are going to gehenom

ChassidishMommy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 4:02 pm

shariy wrote:

IIRC, the Chofetz Chaim in mishna brurah prohibits making brachos in the presence of a girl with long hair. Don't know if this would count as a tznius guideline, but probably has something to do with tznius standards. Don't have exact source, my dh looked it up a while ago when I had this exact question, if it's halacha or not.