Dds school said my shaitel is too long

LovesHashem

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 4:48 pm

amother wrote:

In non- chasidish circles, the Zohar is NOT a source used to determine normative halacha. The shulchan Aruch is. The Zohar says lots of things, about a lot of topics, and unless you are chasidish, we don't follow it. For example: women shaving their heads

Like I said, I don't think it's an aveirah, but it's not advised....

amother

Ruby

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 5:13 pm

[quote="LovesHashem"]You know I was in a high school that "changed on me" and so was my sister. Overnight suddenly we had to wear chatzayit emtzah....I think that's 6 inches below the knee? I don't remember. But we had all sorta of changes....and guess what. THAT'S LIFE

Here's a bunch of reasons why the complaining about this and the news it's getting is riduclous.

1. Most of the people complaining are not from the school.

I am a parent in the school and most of the parents in the school ARE complaining.

2. Most of the comments I've seen online, youtube, YWN, whatapp have been "barbaric" "dehumanizing" etc. I just explained why that isn't true, it may be mean for the school to turn on you...but it doesn't sound like this is a new thing....or is it? Even if it is, it's not barabaic, at least not the action of measuring- the action of changing the rules suddenly might be...But if so...

I wouldn't say it's barbaric or dehumanizing, the kids mostly think it's all a joke, and unfortunately think their principal is a joke too by now.

3. I have seen little to no complaints about the fact that this was forced upon the student bosdy as a new rule. Most of the complaints are just bashing chumros...which is stupid to be honest.

It is a new rule, until now hair in a pony couldn't be longer than 4 inches past the shoulders, this year they changed it to hair cannot be longer than 4 inches past the collarbone when down. That is a huge change, especially since most people weren't happy with the old rule either. This is also the first time hair was checked by lice check. Until now if the hair was too long, someone would go over to the girl and tell her she needed a haircut.

amother

Blue

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 5:32 pm

ra_mom wrote:

That's really sick. Please tell me that you were at least in high school and not a young child in elementary school. Not that it's not traumatizing in HS, but I don't want to believe that this was taught to little BY girls. Sad

I'm pretty sure it was elementary. (Based on my memory of the classroom at the time) Sad

ra_mom

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 5:37 pm

amother wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was elementary. (Based on my memory of the classroom at the time) Sad

That's awful.

OutATowner

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 6:09 pm

Whether or not you agree/passionately disagree/are indifferent, I am so sad that this is what we are busy with this erev Rosh Hashana.

asmileaday

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 7:18 pm

amother wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was elementary. (Based on my memory of the classroom at the time) Sad

I was in elementary school when we visited a school that had this story exhibited in a wax museum format.
And it wasn't a shock I've heard the story previously.
Weirdly enough I don't remember being traumatized by it. Maybe we were just used to hearing these kind of things?

PinkFridge

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:03 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Today this photo is floating around, I look forward to anon posts both confirming and denying it.

It's floating around. Does that mean we should continue to share it?
I'm surprised at a few things:
- Wet hair is actually not harder to check. It just might be harder on the kid's scalp.
- It doesn't mention making sure there is no hair product like mousse or gel. I guess those aren't allowed?

PinkFridge

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:10 pm

amother wrote:

And your point is?
I don't thinks it's any less dehumanizing to measure the skirt of a 5 year old child. I think their both wrong.
What kind of message are we sending to these children??

I'm not sure if I should be keeping up with this thread but I'll say this: I don't like measuring skirts. Just make sure the kid can cover her knees when she's sitting.
5 y.o.s for sure not.
And I'm glad to see someone on the previous page asked a question I was debating asking: this 4" rule: kids with curly or wavy hair better not straighten their hair?

ra_mom

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:12 pm

asmileaday wrote:

An exhibit? shock

PinkFridge

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:18 pm

amother wrote:

Actually most non-Jews I know are far too refined for the long flowing hair you see in many wigs. But that doesn't make it the job of the school to enforce arbitrary rules. Modesty is like class - either you have it by or you don't. It's hard to define, much less to teach.

This is really heartening. I don't expect non-Jews to adhere to all the rules of tznius we do but if most people have this level of refinement, then going out in the summer should be getting a lot easier for people who are careful with shemiras einayim.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:33 pm

amother wrote:

Hmm.. when u wrote this I thought I wonder what this story is. Well, I read it.
I went to bais yaakov schools and heard these kind of stories growing up all the time too.

Yea,it gives kids nightmares Sad

Can you please share the story?

PinkFridge

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:37 pm

amother wrote:

Can you please share the story?

Have you read the whole thread? This is an old, revived thread. I don't remember the first 9, 10 pages but assume there is a story there about tznius and horrific punishment for certain violations.

ra_mom

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:38 pm

amother wrote:

Can you please share the story?

It's from the link that amother white posted yesterday. See below.

amother wrote:

If you want a little bit of history of what type of school they want to become read his article that they got a lot of backlash from a few years ago sending this note home with the girls.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....etter

If you need me to copy and paste the story from yeshiva world, let me know.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:41 pm

ra_mom wrote:

If you need me to copy and paste the story from yeshiva world, let me know.

Thank you im reading it now. But I just want to tell you Ra mom I wish I could meet you irl. U are so kind

ra_mom

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:47 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you im reading it now. But I just want to tell you Ra mom I wish I could meet you irl. U are so kind

That's so nice of you to say hotpink, thank you!

pause

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:49 pm

In school we had girls with really long hair who either braided it or wore it in a neat bun. I don't get this business of policing hair length. You want frum and aidel? Insist on the hair being neatly gathered. (Messy buns were of course not allowed.)

Orchid

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:20 pm

I'm not really following this thread, but read this article by Rabbi Yair Hoffman on YWN and found it to be wonderfully moderate. (Apologies if already posted).

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html

amother

Brown

Tue, Sep 05 2017, 6:03 am

wow, this whole thread, both the old and the new part, just leaves me goggle-eyed. How invasive is that! I'm from a different world, though. DL in Israel. Schools in our community ask adherence to certain dress rules by the children, nobody would dream of telling mothers how to dress or cover the hair. And nobody would dream of measuring girls' hair in school. If anything like that happened here, I'd run away yelling and put my kids into a different school the next day. Is that what Torah is about, measuring people's hair, shaitels and skirts with a ruler? That's what Hashem wants from us and what defines a good Jew? These social chumrot make me want to go otd, chas v'shalom, even without being anywhere near it.

amother

Bronze

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 7:09 am

It is one thing for a school to insist that a girl's hair be tied back or put up if it exceeds a certain length; it is quite another to insist that she cut her hair.

It is ironic that this is happening in Lakewood, the community to which Rebbetzin Paretzky has just moved, and where it is hoped (from what I read here) that she will start a school. I was fortunate enough to be one of her students in the first school (Breuers) in which she taught, when she was Malky Gibber, a young twenty-year-old brilliant, dynamic, and charismatic teacher. (She started when she was nineteen; I entered high school the following year.)

Miss Gibber had hair that was reportedly below-waist length; legend had it that she hadn't had it cut since she was six. She wore it one of three ways: in a coil on the back of her head, in a fancy up-do with bottle curls hanging down a bit, or -- and most often -- down but with the ends tucked / rolled under so that her hair hung down to a couple of inches below her shoulders (as opposed to all the way to her waist).

I didn't measure the mass of hair that hung down below her shoulders; I'm not sure whether it was more than two inches below her shoulders or four inches below her collarbone. But this was the mid 70s and long hair was rare indeed in the frum community, especially on teachers. She stood out on account of her hair. Plus, some of the rolled under ends were always coming loose, and we'd see some mid-back or waist-length strands. Yet she was a role model for tznius in our school, a school in which modesty was strong and an essential component of our community. Nobody ever suggested otherwise. In fact, she was famous for being so careful about tznius that she put a sweater on her knees when she rode the bus to City College, where she was studying for her masters in speech therapy.

It was clear that the future Rebbetzin Paretzky cherished her hair. The week before she got married, she talked to us about her upcoming chasunah, and told us she'd be wearing a sheitel at the chuppah. She discussed the reasons why, and the p'sak of Rav Schwab (then the de facto leader of the Breuers Kehillah) in this regard. She said wistfully that she had always dreamed of walking down to the chuppah with her hair all the way down her back. But she was determined to do the right thing (according to the p'sak she'd gotten), so she did.

I know there's a lot of historical revisionism going on these days. I don't even know the rules about hair in the schools that Rebbetzin Paretzky has led. But I know that when she was single, her hair was a lot longer than anything schools are talking about now, and it didn't diminish her as a role model in any way. If anything, her differences -- her guitar playing and singing, her hair, her sense of humor -- made her much more effective.

imasoftov

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 7:14 am

‘Shmiras Einayim’ School Bus

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html