DEAR NEIGHBOR, | Imamother

ValleyMom

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 5:35 pm

I find it fascinating that the OP believes she would be truly heroic if she went ingot he home and whisked the children away to her apartment.

WHY not try to be really supportive…
Offer to help this poor overwhelmed woman out!!!!

1. Bring over dinner and tell her you over calculated.

2. Tell her you are going to the park, playground, library nd offer to bring her kids along.

3. Tell her your kids would love some company are her children available to play…

There are REAL: things you can do to help this poor woman out.

The LAST thing she needs is to be criticized, judged and humiliated.

What she really needs is a supportive and loving friend.

DO something substantial and get off your darn soapbox.

yo'ma

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 6:17 pm

ValleyMom wrote:

Responses like this make me wish you could like more than once.

amother

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 6:28 pm

New amother here. Let me preface this by saying that yes, some homes are abusive. My post is not to negate the fact but just to show you some perspective in case it is not actually abuse.

One of my children (4 years old) went through a period when he refused to go to sleep. When it came to bedtime he would just scream and shout endlessly. We tried everything, and when I say everything I truly mean it. Had him checked out by the doctor, took him to therapy, tried alternative approaches, punishments, bribery etc. NOTHING worked. Most times he only went to sleep if I let him sleep in our bedroom, but even then he awoke in the night. We also tried sleeping with him or staying with him until he fell asleep. Nothing seemed to help.

This period lasted for an ENTIRE YEAR!

He would follow me around all evening and then sometimes go to bed when we did, other nights he would stand outside our bedroom door or walk around the house. If we went to sleep he would look around the house for something to bang on our door with and bang noisily, sometimes with tools, other times with toys. He could go on and on, screaming, shouting and banging, often until FOUR AM! I'm sure you can imagine that we were beyond exhausted and at our wits end. It was extremely stressful for the whole family.

Understandably we couldn't sit up with him all night and therefore often had to leave him to cry. We spoke to him nicely at first but when it comes after nights of no sleep we were not always so calm with him...

I must say that throughout this time one of my main concerns was that the neighbours, who certainly heard him shout for hours on end, would call social services. If you were to hear a child cry and shout for hours in the night wouldn't you just assume that the parents were neglectful?!
Most people probably would.
We were not neglecting him, just trying to deal with the situation as best as we could...

Please don't make this thread about me, the situation has b'H resolved a long time ago and this thread just brought it to mind again. I hope this has given OP and some other posters a glimpse into the apartment next door.

amother

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 8:12 pm

I don't understand why everyone is bashing OP.

I too have a neighbor that I would like to rescue that child from. (Granted they aren't Jewish.) As Marina said, there is yelling and there is yelling. I am not on my soapbox when I want to give that poor child a hug. I hear the daily curses yelled at this 6 year old. I hear the threats and although physical punishment is rare, there is abuse in that house. I see the icey stares she gives her child when she is innocently playing in the park. I hear this child throwing worse tantrums than my two year old. I see fear in her face; I see her face desperately searching for some sort of approval. I hear this day in and day out, morning and night.

I guess if you aren't in the situation when you've had a neighbor doing this every single morning and night for two years, you would think different.

And, yes, I know amazing parents who do yell a lot. Sometimes, you know your neighbor isn't one of them.

amother

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:14 pm

OP the mother is probably not in an emotionally stable place most of the day for whatever reason. You can do your part by showing the kids caring when they are by your house. Yes, every little hug and every little bit of love goes a long way with kids that are emotionally starved. I know, I was there. Every little thing you can give them, will help them till they grow up and move on to better things. My siblings bonded to the neighbors bh and the neighborhood for that matter, and they all show them support. It means the world to them. It means someone cares and they aren't what they are screamed at all day. Hashem put you in this house with the thin walls so you can know the situation, so you can care.
Hatzlacha, and may hashem help them grow up emotionally stable.

amother

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:28 pm

I too have lived with various neighbors screaming and yelling, and worse.
Nothing a neighbor can say or do will help the situation, sometimes it's really sad and pathetic.
I live for several years now with a neighbor who has gotten better as the children have grown a bit older, but still the screams are there on a regular basis. She seems normal, she cooks, she runs the home, but she loses it every day. My kids are shocked all the time and come tell me how grateful they are that they don't have to live through that. Sometimes it's so scary, that I can really worry that the kids will not survive! That bad!
So I do understand the OP as well as the defensive reactions.
However, even though I have offered help, babysat, etc. that is not the answer.
These women need an organization to help them cope, to teach them parenting skills, to teach them how to calm down and relax, and to help them when they need help with the kids.
But no such organization exists yet.
Some mothers need therapy, some just need help.

amother

Sun, Mar 16 2014, 11:36 pm

(Op) Wowowow last amother!! This is just to prove that unless ure there and can understand don't judge!!
Yes I believe that this women is being abused by her husband as well and therefore lets it out on her kids.
Still, and therefore, I beg of her to go for help!!

To answer some of the comments...
Firstly I meant a little more than a few days when I said a long while..
I do agree that I do not get the full picture bc I dont have kids yet but therefore my standing with this letter was one of begging and pleading of her to please help herself and her kids. In no way did I mean to be accusing, judgamntal, mean etc.. on the contrary coming from a place of abuse I know how it feels and how easy it is to imitate.

Also, I did not mean it literally when I said I want to hug/kiss them. I said I want to, as in I care, not that I intend too.
I do not get a chance too in any case.
As I said im newlymarried and therefore I don't have much shaychis with my neighbors and don't have their kids over.

I didn't mean to do anything constructive for my neighbor but did it to maybe make others aware...

Are there really people here thar would call a rav and get involved?? If yes how?

May we all overcome our challenges succesfully and be able to help others always!!

amother

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 12:15 am

Op, I get what you mean! We had friends we visited after they moved away. They seem totally fine, professionals, put together, she seems totally fine when you're out with her as adults. The weekend I spent there was a weekend from hell! I had forgotten how negative and kvetchy she could be. Once there, I remembered once I saw her interacting with her kids.

If was definitely emotional abuse. She loves them, she just doesn't know how to show them I guess. I couldn't believe the way she talked to them and berated them in front of me. If I loose it and yell at my kids, I'm embarrassed for others to hear if I'm really being not nice (as occasionally happens). This woman made me look like a tzadekes, a mother of the year. I'm far from it.

She didn't just yell because she lost it and had lots of stress. She just berated and yelled at her kids all day over EVERYTHING. I can probably count on my fingers how many times she reacted normally to them. I kept trying to be a good example by how I spoke with my kids. It wasn't very hard because compared to her I was as sweet as honey!

I tried complimenting her kids if they helped out, or on their school projects, or on how they looked. Any of you would have done the same. My heart broke for them. They were just normal kids but the way she spoke with them reminded me of some Roald Dahl caricature. So sad.

I kept thinking back on what I should have done. She didn't hit them. Shd fed and clothed them decently. She "just" destroyed their self worth and (probably) their love for her with every breath. There's no doubt in my mind that if one of those poor children woke up with a nightmare...He better beware!

In my book this is abuse...but...???...Is this the kind of abuse you call authorities on? I doubt it. It's probably one of those situations where you're like "I wish you needed a license to be a parent. "

Please don't gang up on OP. She doesn't sound at all righteous to me. Yes, when I was a newlywed I thought I would be the perfect parent compared to those OTHER mothers. I know I was smug then. This is not what I'm hearing from OP. There really are mothers that are like she describes at face value. And they seem normal. I've had a neighbor that used to tell me embarrassed "what must you think of me, I yelled at my kids..." It was a joke. She was a normal mother like me and you who sometimes lost it at the end of the day. I think the OP knows the difference.

5*Mom

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 2:40 am

amother wrote:

There's an organization like this where I live, and I'm sure in other places as well.

Ruchel

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 10:23 am

I'm from a world without chessed girls, nothing is free or almost nothing.
Calling the school? In my world again, it's not their business. Calling the rav is even odder imho...

You can report her to social services if you think the children being sent to non Jewish families or "homes"/orphanage type places for kids without fit parents is better... I have an acquaintance whose kids are in a non Jewish "home" type with dozens of kids with issues, no Jewish education, no kosher anything, the educators do what they can but yeah. Think HARD. I'm sure it's a shaila, as well.

You can also try to help her, if she accepts. BTDT. Be ready to lose the fine relationship you may have had before. Again, BTDT. But know that if you appear judgy, even if you ARENT, she will refuse any help at all.

amother

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 11:01 am

Thank u rochel for putting down my options clearly. None of the above seem appropiate especially since I don't have much of a relationship at all and anything I say or do will be odd. All I can do is daven and that's what im doing, that she gets the help she needs fast and that her kids grow up and get help.

To summerize, my point in writing this was to make anybody reading this aware what the repurcussions are and maybe just maybe, despite it being very hard, make them stop and think bf they yell next time.

Thank u!

amother

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 11:17 am

amother wrote:

Phew!! Im the op and not used to writing here so was not expecting such answers.

So yes I am newlymarried and don't have kids to tuck in yet. Now bf u scream and say ohhh that's y she can say it so calmly, let me make u aware that I took care of my siblings for long streches of time and practiced what im preaching although it was very hard!
I agree with all of u that say that some more action is in order but let me ask u, if ud be me what would u really do??

What would I really do?
I'll call CPS and let them figure it out. Children don't deserve to be brought up this way.

And yes, I've called CPS before because of the way I heard parents talking to their kids (in my work place). I'm sorry, but it's NEVER ok for parents and kids to be arguing over who said they want the other to die first. That's not a normal conversation. And the fact that they left as friends didn't change that. So since I couldn't change anything CPS got to investigate and decide whether or not the child was in a healthy/safe environement. It's all our responsibility to do that.

amother

Mon, Mar 17 2014, 11:27 am

amother wrote:

I'm the amother who said I'd call CPS. Honestly, if you're concerned the kids would be placed with non Jewish families and be worse off taken away I'd consult with a Rav first. Not because that's always the best first step imnsho but because someone should tell here there are people that know that WILL call CPS if she doesn't shape up and you're probably NOT the best person to do it if you don't want a sworn enemy for life.