DEAR NEIGHBOR, | Imamother

eschaya

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 12:33 am

Another offended mother here. I too was the most wonderful camp counselor, the sought-after babysitter, the tutor everyone fought over... and yes, today I am the mother of 4 who sometimes (more often than I"d like) loses her cool and screams. I too had advice and suggestions and criticisms 10 years ago to offer to my SILs, to women in the park, and to neighbors. I would have had a lot to say to my current self had I met her back then, but my current self would tell that self-righteous, ignorant fool of inexperience to shut up, grow up, and wait until she knows what real life and real child-rearing is all about. In all likelihood, the mother next door is trying hard to be a good mother, but at the same time is faced with stresses and experiences that try her and grind her to the floor. She probably feels guilty at night for not being the mother she wishes she could be, but promises herself that the next day will be better. She doesn't need you to add to her guilt. As many other posters have suggested, if you relieve her of some of the strains and stresses and burdens she is carrying, you might do the most good.
I can't even believe some people are discussing CPS for yelling at a child to get into bed. My gosh, I've been guilty of yelling this too. But do you know that before you heard me screaming "SHMEREL, GET INTO BED THIS INSTANT, AND IF I FIND YOU OUT OF BED ONE MORE TIME YOU WILL GET A SERIOUS CONSEQUENCE. I AM GETTING ANGRY NOW!", he had started by spitting at his brother in the bottom bunk, then I found him reading in the bathroom, next I heard footsteps running all over hte upstairs but by the time I go up he had run into bed, then his brother was crying because this kid had stolen his teddy, and most recently I found him sneaking in the downstairs pantry getting to my chocolate stash. So what you think is my impatience and loss of temper is actually an example of extreme patience.

Of course there are true cases of true abuse, but what you are describing does not seem to fit the picture. Also, you are not a professional, and not even a mother, so before you pass judgement get educated.

gold21

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 1:54 am

A mom who yells does not necessarily translate to an abusive or dysfunctional home. No, I definitely don't think that moms should spend their whole day yelling. Not okay at all. But it's normal to yell here and there.

OP, here's a suggestion. Tonight, go to sleep at 2 AM. Set your alarm for 3:30, get up and do chores for 20 minutes. Go back to sleep. Set your alarm for 6:00. Get up, do chores for 20 minutes, go back to sleep. Get up for the day at 7 AM. Repeat this cycle for 3 more nights. Starting to feel foggy, grouchy, and cranky? Welcome to the world of moms.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 6:27 am

Hi, another mom who screams at her kids here. I have no idea if my neighbors can hear me, sometimes I worry that they can. I'm so overwhelmed and hormonal (from pregnancy), one of my kids is really hyper, and my kids are terrible sleepers, we lose hours of sleep a night sometimes. It causes shalom bayis problems as well. I know none of this is an excuse, and none of this will take away the hurt that I am doing to my small children every time I scream.

I did take your letter as a wake up call, and was not offended by it. I'll try to keep it in mind when they make me want to rip my hair out. Just because you don't have kids of your own yet, doesn't mean you're not right. Whoever your neighbor is, though, I do feel sorry for her, she must be really overwhelmed, and I assume she feels badly about the way she treats her kids, she's just fallen so deep into the pit that she can't find any way out.

eschaya

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 6:39 am

gold21 wrote:

Well said! And this is only the beginning of it... Don't know how to simulate a colicky baby, a rambunctious toddler, dayschooler having trouble with homework, teenager going through a hard time, on top of working full-time, cleaning a house that never gets fully cleaned, making lunches and dinners while helping a few kids with homework and pre-test panic and overtired meltdown. And oh shoots, no wonder the baby is screaming... it's been 4 hours since she was nursed. You need to go to the bathroom but have to hold it in (yet again) and you haven't had a drink in hours because there is no time to take care of yourself. You know that having a good night's sleep, eating well-balanced healthy meals, and exercising and fresh air can help you cope but... its been months since you've slept more than 3 hours straight and more than 5 hours total, the best you can do to feed yourself is to grab a granola bar as you are buckling a baby and toddler into the car because you are late for driving carpool, and the only exercise you are guaranteed is running after the naked toddler who escapes every time you change his diaper. This is a little taste of motherhood, OP. Sounds exhausting and stressful? It is. But it's also the most beautiful and wonderful and awe-inspiring and character-building thing you will Iy"h experience. You say that you mention these things because you "care about my kids". No honey, you have no way of ever coming close to the love and care I have for my kids. But along with the pleasure and unimaginable love comes the stress, especially in today's climate where so much is placed on the shoulders of the women.
I try to follow the 10:1 ratio, and perhaps your neighbor is doing the same. As long as you make sure that there are 10 positive interactions for every negative one, a child should come out ok.
OP - this is a bracha: Iy"h you should soon experience the joys and wonders of motherhood, and when the associated stresses come along you should be able to react calmly and with equanimity. But if you do lose your cool (I'm assuming it will happen at some point), you will remind yourself that you are human and you will not let that guilt consume you. You will focus on making the next day better. You will make sure that if - no when - negative interactions take place, you will counteract that with at least 10 hugs or smiles or complements or soft words of love. Words and gestures that perhaps are too quiet for your intrusive neighbor to hear.

5*Mom

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 6:58 am

To me, the most disturbing thing on this thread is the fact that there are people whose walls are so thin that they (claim they) can hear e.v.e.r.y.t.h.I.n.g. going on in someone else's home and they do nothing about this.

If this is really happening IT. IS. NOT. OKAY!! If you know that you can hear another family's private life get. yourself. some. soundproofing. We don't look into other people's windows, don't open their mail, don't listen in on their phone calls. If this were me, I would spend whatever it would cost to soundproof the walls WITHOUT TELLING THE NEIGHBOR who would die of mortification, so that everyone can have their privacy, which is a crucial foundation of a Jewish home.

To me, this is just the same as sitting down on your neighbor's couch with a tub of popcorn to watch the soap opera of her life unfold. I'm horrified.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:08 am

I'm honestly shocked that everyone seems to think losing it is ok. If you can't handle the kids don't have them. Simple. Yes, I know I sound all judgemental but guess what? I am. Not about people who occasionally lose it or even about people who lose it more than they should but about people who think it's ok. Losing it is one thing but it's important to know that while it may be normal/understandable it is NOT ok and you have to work on improving in that area. OP made it clear she is not talking about a rare occurence. I honestly don't know many people that lose it on their kids regularly and if I heard what OP says she heard I'd be horrified. It's not ok to do that to a child.

smss

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:14 am

amother wrote:

amother, I think you're right, we do have to make a distinction. yes, you are still an ok person and a good mother even if you lose it sometimes, but no, losing it is never ok. I think it's important for a person not to beat themselves up when they do something wrong because that usually just makes you depressed and takes you to a worse place, not a better one, but you're right, we do have to always recognize that it's wrong. I made a mistake, I need to do something now to calm myself down, tomorrow I'll do better.

gold21

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:42 am

amother wrote:

Gold, im sorry ure feeling overwhelmed.
Is there any place in this whole back and forth where I said I think its easy or not overwhelming?

I'm not particularly overwhelmed. Don't feel sorry. I'm just a regular mom doing regular mom things. Normal healthy good moms are allowed to yell on occasion. In fact, I think I'm a pretty good mom, thankyouverymuch, B"H. I tell my kids and show my kids that I love them on a regular basis, and I'm very laid back with them. The fact that I do raise my voice one in a while does not mean I'm a bad mommy. I'm certainly not gonna take criticism from someone who has no clue what being a mom entails.

One thing I can tell you is this- if you go through my posts on this site back from when I joined as a member, my oldest posts (age 20) were a lot more judgmental of others than my posts are today. Life experience mellows you, and teaches you how much you don't know.

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Mar 18 2014, 9:08 am; edited 2 times in total

gold21

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:49 am

amother wrote:

Not judgmental at all LOL. And my name is Garfield and I work in a factory in India.

I don't "lose it", I am fully in control whenever I do raise my voice. I don't have a problem with my parenting style, and neither does anyone that knows me. I don't yell a lot, but I do yell here and there. Totally normal.

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Mar 18 2014, 9:05 am; edited 2 times in total

gold21

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 9:00 am

I do know a family where the mom used to yell REALLY LOUD all the time. Freaked me out. Neighbors called the cops on them a few times. That was NOT normal. The woman was always screeching at the top of her lungs. Very disturbing.

But regular moms who yell just raise their voice for 10 seconds, as in "I said, get into your pajamas 5 times already! Why aren't you in your pajamas by now?" and then they go back to a normal loving soothing voice. Don't try to convince me that raising your voice here and there is gonna make a bigger impact on a child than all the sweet loving things that you say. You're deluding yourself if you think that.

My parents yelled at me here and there when I was growing up, and I don't think anything of it. Totally normal. Not abusive.

morah

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 9:04 am

amother wrote:

Gold, im sorry ure feeling overwhelmed.
Is there any place in this whole back and forth where I said I think its easy or not overwhelming?

Actually yes, there is. You stated that you know how to control yourself around annoying kid behavior because you cared for your siblings a lot (implication being, you know what it's like and that it's not that hard). I took care of my autistic brother a lot when I was a teenager, and it wasn't that hard either. You know why? Because I didn't have to deal with his night terrors at 4 am; I didn't have to deal with changing his clothes 7 times a day due to his sensory issues; I didn't have to stay on top of all his various therapies; I didn't have to spend two hours a night putting him to bed; I also didn't have to deal with a moody, hormonal teenager on top of all that because I WAS the moody, hormonal teenager. I'm a mother now, and while I'm proud to say almost never lose it (I'm pretty good about stepping back, counting to 10, even turning on the tv for half an hour to catch my breath and stay calm), the fact is, there's no comparison between siblings and your own kids. There just isn't. It's easy to know what to do when the behind-the-scenes 24/7 responsibility is NOT ultimately yours. It's a huge burden, joyful at times, crushing at others. When you are the one running on little sleep, unable to even pee by yourself unless another adult is around, needing to arrange details of schooling/activities, even if you have a sitter you still need to make sure she has food to feed them and clean clothes to dress them in. This may be on top of a full time job. And the worry of Am I Doing This Right. Now, it's not as easy as it was when you were watching your siblings and all you had to do was follow your mom's instructions for a finite period of time...

I don't know your neighbor, maybe she's a garden variety stressed out mom, maybe she's verbally abusive. Maybe you should talk to a Rav about what you're seeing so you can determine the right course of action- whether that's a little help during the witching hour or getting OHEL type professionals involved.