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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

DEAR NEIGHBOR,

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amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:06 am

Op here.
Lemme please make two things clear.
One is that when I said screaming gold, I meamt like soemone u knew whom police was called for.
If this letrer doesnt apply to u please don't accept it as such and get offended. IT WASNT MEANT FOR U!!
Secondly, when I said taking care of siblings I meant for weeks.... doing all the things u explained ureself doing.... also the middlr of the night rundown and juggling a job.

sushi galore

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:07 am

Well...! I have a neighbor who is totally oblivious to my hearings... the Mr yells at his kids to no bounds....he throws them out in the hallway at night yelling them to shut up....if G-D forbid they cry at night, which happens nicely his yelling awakes me too. I cry for his kids...the day is yet to come when I will call social services....

MommyZ

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:20 am

amother wrote:

A few weeks is babysitting, not parenting. Parenting is fulltime.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:34 am

Op cont. ..
And one more thing... if I do find myself in a situation like u, I will iyh do my utmost to make it stop. Like use the money set aside for parenting classes and therapy.
Or at the very least get a mothers helper etc...
To the mother who said that shell take it as a reminder. . Lucky kids. They have a mother who can handle mussur and looks for improvement. Kol hakovod! This is exactly y I posted this!!

chavs

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:38 am

This is a really depressing thread.
If you know there is abuse going on, as in the kids witness their mother getting hurt, I'd the father throws them around, if the shouting is beyond normal and includes 'put downs' or if the kids are not safe in other ways, either call the police or social services. Add I said before the kids do not automatically get taken away, or could be that the parents get the help they need though.
If otoh, there is a lot of shouting bit it is not in three realm of abuse. You as the neighbour or friend might aviation be able to help. Instead of sitting at home and either complaining on this forum or crying for the kids, befriend the mother and offer to help.
When you are friends you can ask if she wantstogo to a patenting class you saw together. You can tell her about this awesome book you read, she might like. You can offer to take her kids out etc etc.
I have friends who I am always borrowing books from and lending books to and telling each other about good paparenting courses. This can be part of a good friendship.
My point is that coming here and saying how terrible it is, is useless and makes you seem like you* are holier then though and don't actually care for those children who you cry about when you don't take any action.

*you was used in the plural for all the different amothers just talking and not doing.

MommyZ

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:40 am

OP, I am not condoning out of control, regular yelling. I do my best to be a calm and loving divorced Mommy most of the time. I think the issue is that until you are a mother yourself, there are things you can't possibly understand. Once you can admit that to yourself, you may understand why your posts elicited defensive responses.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:43 am

Mommy z, ure 1000 % right! I said that in one of my first posts. But
Is that a reason for me not to say anything?

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:43 am

Mommy z, ure 1000 % right! I said that in one of my first posts. But
Is that a reason for me not to say anything?

MommyZ

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:46 am

amother wrote:

Mommy z, ure 1000 % right! I said that in one of my first posts. But
Is that a reason for me not to say anything?

I'm a libertarian and strong supporter of freedom of speech. Say what you want to say, but if the purpose is to influence others you might try to tone it down a little and at show some humility.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:50 am

Mommy z, ure right. Dont have what to say. Its my weak point.

MommyZ

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 7:59 am

How about asking how mothers with difficult children cope and what helped them to learn how to remain calm under stress? You would probably get a lot of helpful responses, and other people could learn without feeling bad.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:02 am

Kol hakovod! Any ideas?

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:06 am

Just want to post my POV. I grew up in an emotionally/physically abusive home. Lots of yelling and screaming, hitting, put-downs, threats, you name it. I ran the house from a young age. Stress, depression, ......Picked myself up and do my best to do whatever my mother didn't do. Parenting classes, therapy, etc....have B"H helped me deal with my past and present. I'm far from perfect, but B"H my kids are not growing up in the kind of home I grew up in - and that's what heals me more than anything.

-Please don't call CPS quickly. I'm not saying never but don't rush into that. My siblings and I are all united in this - we're glad none of our neighbors took that step. We don't think we would've been better off. Ask for professional and/or Halachic advice before taking this step.

-Unless you have a close and influencing kind of relationship with the parents, don't approach them. It's likely to backfire.

-Letters like this in magazines may raise awareness among others and generate support, but people like my mother would never read such a letter to begin with, and would do nothing with it if they did.

-If you can be supportive, be supportive. This can include anything from physical support to emotional support. My parents' next-door neighbor did all of these at various times. She has built herself an empire in the world-to-come by what she has done for us. Most of the support she gave was emotional, and I think that's what we needed most. She was always there for me, she was the substitute Mom that I spoke to, that influenced everything I do right today. She was also influential in getting us into schools when needed. She advised us on everything, from clothes to shidduchim. Nowadays she comes to our Simchos and "sheps Nachas" like the honorary Grandma she is.

-Pray for those kids.

-I have one sibling who struggles mightily as a parent, and is not always able to come thru for them emotionally and physically. Some things I do for her children whom I love dearly:
-I make sure they have adequate, decent, nice clothes in their closet. Over the years my sibling has gotten better at this herself....but sometimes needs help......Sometimes this involves $$. I'm far from wealthy, but Hashem helps and B"H they have what they need.
-I used to make sure there was food/meals. B"H she manages this better now than she used to.
-I've supplemented the cost of summer/daycamp/camp and collected from relatives for this as well. It would not be healthy for them to sit home with her over vacation.
-I invite them for Shabbos from time to time, to give her a break, them a break, etc...and to love them and give them attention.
-I arrange an extra collection of $$$ before Yom Tov for expenses.

MommyZ

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:06 am

amother wrote:

Kol hakovod! Any ideas?

Mommy needs sleep too. Lack of sleep is unhealthy. The occasional small bribe isn't the end of the world. Getting away from the kids now and then can help. Asking for help is nothing to be ashamed of.

Just to start it off.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 8:28 am

amother wrote:

Hi, another mom who screams at her kids here. I have no idea if my neighbors can hear me, sometimes I worry that they can. I'm so overwhelmed and hormonal (from pregnancy), one of my kids is really hyper, and my kids are terrible sleepers, we lose hours of sleep a night sometimes. It causes shalom bayis problems as well. I know none of this is an excuse, and none of this will take away the hurt that I am doing to my small children every time I scream.

I did take your letter as a wake up call, and was not offended by it. I'll try to keep it in mind when they make me want to rip my hair out. Just because you don't have kids of your own yet, doesn't mean you're not right. Whoever your neighbor is, though, I do feel sorry for her, she must be really overwhelmed, and I assume she feels badly about the way she treats her kids, she's just fallen so deep into the pit that she can't find any way out.

Bravo, amother. It's refreshing to see someone that's honest with herself, and open minded enough to recognize and acknowledge a problem you need to deal with. That's the first step.
As for all of you others that are so quick to be on the defensive, and attack the OP, you are really being unfair. She expressed herself in a very sensitive way - not at all in attack mode. If you re-read her original post, and HONESTLY don't identify yourself as the neighbor OP is describing, then OP is not talking to you. If after doing an honest cheshbon hanefesh, you do identify with the neighbor, please take OP's words to heart.
Sadly, I'm afraid some of you "doth protest too much"!

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 9:13 am

amother wrote:

I took care of 10 of my siblings (wake, dress, bring to school, sub teach for my mother, drive home, supper, homework, clean house, bedtime, etc.) while my mother was in Israel for 10 days. Didn't prepare me for 24/7 life with my own kids and the stress of that.

I was a far better "mother of 10" as a teen than I am now as a mother of 6.

same here- couldn't agree more.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 10:13 am

OP....

I lost my cool at my kid the other day - in a baaad way - verbally.

To put it in perspective... single mother, no family, no help, work nights from home so I can be with my child during the day, no financial or other support.

I was very PMSy, especially because it was a chag time, and that is especially hard for me.

And I L.O.S.T. it - I yelled at my child, I yelled at Hashem too. Said terrible things to both.

Yes, I apologized to both later, when my pain passed, and I was calm. Yes, my child know he/she is loved. But sometimes, life just gets too hard.

Just saying, it's hard when you don't know the ins and outs of everything in a person's heart, life and mind.

Don't judge.

Please.

observer

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 10:27 am

Sorry to say this, but the OP does have a point.

There are many many mothers who are in the same boat (well, nobody has it exactly the same) with a number of children, some difficult, going on 3 hours of interrupted sleep, etc... and guess what? Not everybody yells at their kids all the time. If it happens on rare occasions, its one thing. But on a regular basis? No, I don't think that's ok.

To those being so defensive, if you are yelling at your kids on a regular basis, maybe you should have a good heart to heart with yourself and rethink your parenting approach.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 10:59 am

Dear OP!
I hope that you're not second guessing yourself about your original post - especially after receiving so many indignant, and defensive replies. I think that you wrote from the heart, and didn't come off to me, as attacking every overwhelmed and exasperated mother, who occasionally lost it, and yelled at their children.
As a fellow emotionally abused child, who is now a mother, and Bubby, of k"h a large brood of grandchildren from babies to a twenty-one year old, I wish that someone had written such a letter to my own mother. Though I was blessed with a good adult life, when I look back on my childhood, I am again that frightened lonely little girl, always being put down, and feeling unloved, and unloveable. Despite the healing help and love of a wonderful husband, and the nachas from my family, my childhood has taken its toll on my self esteem; and because of it, I know that I haven't reached anywhere near my full potential.
It scares me to see how many people here have been so quick to jump at you for expressing your sensitive feelings. I'm sure there are some that innocently misunderstand where you're coming from, but I'm also afraid that there are others who are in denial, and don't want to really think about their own actions.

amother

Tue, Mar 18 2014, 11:07 am

(Op) thank u thank u!!!
Like I said only been there done that ppl, can truly understand! Appreciate ure understanding! Thank for the chizuk too...

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