Deleted | Imamother

amother

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 6:50 pm

amother wrote:

The issue would be if the donor was non-Jewish. A Kohen can't marry a girl with a non-Jewish father. My cousin (daughter of my intermarried aunt) had this issue.

I thought a Kohen could not marry the daughter of a jewish mother and a non jewish father because that would make the woman a zona due to s-xual relationships in this case. However, with a sperm donor there would be no zex, therefore the mother would not be considered a zonah and there would be no problem I believe.

sky

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 6:56 pm

gold21 wrote:

That's so interesting... One second, so a girl who has a non Jewish father has a different halachic status than a girl born to 2 Jewish parents? I thought that Halacha only looks at the religion of the mother.

yep. I have a friend who had a non-Jewish father. She grew up Just like me, but when it when it came to marry a kohen she could not.
Its a problem that it is so unknown - because when you say you can't marry a kohen people start thinking about all other different issues that are more of an issue then this.

amother

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 6:58 pm

amother wrote:

Certainly possible. However, I have heard that when a married couple is using a sperm donor, some hold that it could be a mamzeirus issue even though she obviously didn't have zex with the other man. So it is possible that those people would also hold that a daughter of a non Jewish sperm donor still can't marry a Kohen even though there was no znus involved.

Gold21- it's not an issue of less Jewish. A giyores is 1000% Jewish and can't marry a Kohen either.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:23 pm

amother wrote:

Mamzerut is not an issue if a non-Jewish donor is used.

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:30 pm

sky wrote:

I did not know that a child born to a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father has a different halachic standing than a child born to two Jewish parents. Interesting.

amother

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:52 pm

I am sure that parents that don't want their kids to know can just say something like "we don't want you to marry a kohen, for various reasons." Maybe make up a silly reason or whatever.
I am sure that many of these parents do not plan on telling them about the sperm donation. Maybe about the IVF? But today people are already asking, who did the hashgacha etc?
And how do people suspect it? If the family is small, or it took many years for them to have a child, etc. the suspicion will be there, and by chasidim the problems will arise... I assure you. It is no simple matter.

Peanut2

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:52 pm

I expect my children to, beH, be legal adults when they marry. So I won't be in any position to let or not let them marry anyone.

But I wouldn't mind, as long as I thought the kid was a good kid and good for my kid. If you follow. Getting along with the IL would be even better. So sure.

Would rather have that than my child marrying someone who will mistreat her or who isn't suitable for her in an important way.

gold21

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:58 pm

For those that would not want their child to marry a child conceived through sperm donation, why not? I'm trying to figure it out. Like, let's say the kid was raised in a normal stable home to two loving parents, but the couple used donor sperm to conceive? I mean, I dunno, what's the concern? Medical background?

ectomorph

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 8:11 pm

groisamomma wrote:

No.

Why are people amother here? Unless your dd was conceived through donor sperm, why the need for secrecy? It's an opinion, people. You're allowed to disagree with your username.

There.

It's because anyone who disagrees with creating fatherless children is a judgemental, closeminded, insensitive clod who cannot possibly understand what older singles go through, and probably chareidi to boot.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 9:24 pm

Ectomorph, sorry to be obtuse but I don't understand if you would be comfortable with a child-in-law raised by a stable Jewish couple, the woman being the kid's biological mother, but, who had him/her using non-Jewish sperm donation? I just want to know your opinion.

(Leaving out all Cohen and Levi issues, which I am assuming do not apply in your case.)

(The donor must be a non-Jew. Otherwise there are mamzerus issues.)

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:47 pm

morah wrote:

True that. But it is a wise idea. For all the foibles of the shidduch system, asking detailed questions is not one of them. Well, not if they're the right details anyway. If we're getting hung up on the tablecloths, we've got a problem, but wanting to know more about the family situation and how it affected the person is a good idea.

And I believe that the detailed questions, of any kind, in the shidduch system, is part of the problem.
I remember starting to date my husband. We were from two completely different worlds. Nobody overlapped, so I called my rav to ask him if he could check out this guy. He said, and I quote "I will if you want me to, but I think checking people out is stupid. Go out with him, see if you click at all in any ways and then if something feels fishy, come back and we will talk."

Yes, he said that. And I agree now. Some of the questions asked (as I have heard) are just crazy and nothing to do with if two people will mesh together (and I am not talking about the tablecloths, although that is asked sometimes and thats cry too Smile

) so I dont agree with the questions asked, not at all. But I guess I dont have to because I am married and my child/ren will date through the MO way and not have these problems.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:50 pm

amother wrote:

That is the saddest and ugliest thing I have read here. So there is a small family and it took a few years. Like I wrote on the other thread PLEASE DONT MAE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ANY FAMILY. ITS DISGUSTING AND YOU WOULD NOT WANT PEOPLE TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT YOUR FAMILY. NO MATTER WHAT COMMUNITY YOU ARE IN!!! (yes, I am yelling.)
(amother there, not you specifically, the general you)

Tablepoetry

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 12:03 am

Just saying....with these attitudes nobody is going to reveal they were conceived via sperm donor. Nobody's that stupid. They will find a rav who says its OK, there are likely rabbanim who would rule leniently and say we never can know for sure. Don't expect anyone to offer this info.
As an aside, in Israel, the rabbanut and the government consider the husband to be the father No Matter What. DNA evidence to the contrary is not accepted in the rabbanut, AFAIK. They don't want to deal with these problems.

Frumdoc

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:31 am

A non Jewish sperm donor would hav less likelihood of carrying the typical ashkenazi jewish genetic mutations, and therefore their children would be more genetically robust than a child born of two parents of the same ethnic subgroup, as their recessive genetic mutations would be very unlikely to match up, giving them less chance of a serious genetic illness.

There is some screening of dominant characteristics in sperm donation, such as skin, eye color and I think major illnesses. So a child is less likely to have something wrong than in some close mouthed insular family who don't medicate their children's epilepsy or treat mental illness because it will affect shidduchim.

There is generally understanding that most personality characteristics are very much moulded or influenced by their upbringing, including IQ and temperament. So looking at how a person is brought up and their environment is a far better way of evaluating how they will respond to life's challenges than the pure genetics of their unknown or known father.

When we look at families for shidduchim, we are really looking at their environment, but think we are looking at their parent's characteristics such as temper as an inheritance, what we really see is the effect on a child or adult of growing up with this parental tendency. With the exception of inherited disease, which is more likely to occur in yichusdik, insular communities wheee everyone marries each other than in an unknown non jewish sperm donor, I can't think of any reason why information about the genetic parentage is useful in 99% of cases, and in those it is, many people can't get their genuine information anyway.

PS, I answered yes, of course.

imasoftov

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 3:54 am

rosehill wrote:

I don't plan on *letting* my children marry anyone.

this. and if there is anyone who plans to not *let" their child marry someone (for whatever reason), I hope they change their mind before their children are old enough to marry because they don't want to hear what plan B is.

imasoftov

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 3:57 am

mille wrote:

Agree with everyone else on the use of the word "let".

That said, I said yes on the poll. My kid can marry whoever they want. They will be, at the time of marriage (presumably), a full blown grown up, and they get to make that choice. They are marrying the child, not the mother, so what does it really matter?

I voted "other" because "let" makes me see red.