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Forum
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-> Simcha Section
ectomorph
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 Wed, May 28 2014, 12:33 pm
The bride decides what the bridesmaids can and can't wear. Full stop.
As for the guests, you can write a note along the lines of "Please dress modestly" on the invitation, which I've seen many times. But realize that their definition of modest is still going to be below par.
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syrima
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Wed, May 28 2014, 1:21 pm
Everyone at the wedding will understand that there is a balance between your own values of tzniyus and the values of kibud av v'em/family shalom bayis. Certainly any Lubavitcher has been to many weddings where not everyone toes the line in regard to tzniyus. I think in general this highlights the merits of the kallah/chassan - that they have grown voluntarily in their Yiddishkeit.
Please use common sense and only insist on "modesty" according to secular American standards - no bare shoulders, miniskirts, etc. if mom just wants to wear a lace doily, great!
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Mrs Bissli
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Wed, May 28 2014, 1:29 pm
I thought brides get to choose bridesmaids dress ONLY IF she pays (or at least subsidises) the dress.
As for practical solution, can the bridesmaid just wear light material shawl or bolero under the chuppah? Mazel tov.
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Barbara
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Wed, May 28 2014, 2:11 pm
| Mrs Bissli wrote: | I thought brides get to choose bridesmaids dress ONLY IF she pays (or at least subsidises) the dress.
As for practical solution, can the bridesmaid just wear light material shawl or bolero under the chuppah? Mazel tov. |
Not in my experience. The bride picks the ugliest dress she can possibly find, ensuring that it makes at least one of her bridesmaids look hideously ugly, then makes her friends pay for them. Happy happy joy joy.
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greenfire
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Wed, May 28 2014, 2:16 pm
| Mrs Bissli wrote: | I thought brides get to choose bridesmaids dress ONLY IF she pays (or at least subsidises) the dress.
As for practical solution, can the bridesmaid just wear light material shawl or bolero under the chuppah? Mazel tov. |
| Barbara wrote: | | Not in my experience. The bride picks the ugliest dress she can possibly find, ensuring that it makes at least one of her bridesmaids look hideously ugly, then makes her friends pay for them. Happy happy joy joy. |
right - the bride can't afford a wedding and the bridesmaids dresses - you're paying for the privilege of being the maid ... maids must look uglier than the bride ..
come on haven't you seen all the movies
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amother
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Wed, May 28 2014, 2:38 pm
every bride gets to choose her bridesmaids dresses -- just choose one that is simple and covers v zehu...no need to discuss tznius etc
and some people do choose to print on the bottom of the invitation in small print:
"guests are respectfully requested to dress modestly according to jewish orthodox tradition"
We have a similar situation and B"H have never had a problem.
Mazal Tov!
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amother
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Wed, May 28 2014, 2:42 pm
I wouldn't look at it as "forcing" -- simply like all brides this dress, color, etc., is the one she likes for her bridesmaids to wear at her wedding. And I'd focus on my enthusiasm that they want to be included and are included by her and happy for her etc
enjoy!
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Ruchel
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Wed, May 28 2014, 3:21 pm
| amother wrote: | every bride gets to choose her bridesmaids dresses -- just choose one that is simple and covers v zehu...no need to discuss tznius etc
and some people do choose to print on the bottom of the invitation in small print:
"guests are respectfully requested to dress modestly according to jewish orthodox tradition"
We have a similar situation and B"H have never had a problem.
Mazal Tov! |
Not all brides have bridesmaids at all, especially Jewish brides.
And not all brides choose what the BMs wear.
I can see people saying "well I'm not Orthodox" and not bothering. Modest attire is your best bet... and expect surprises anyway.
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newmammy
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Wed, May 28 2014, 3:24 pm
Barbara, thanks for the laughs. 
Yes, a bride does have a say even if she isn't paying.
Give guidelines e.g. Blue dresses, cocktail or floor length, sleeves and high neckline.
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sweetpotato
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Wed, May 28 2014, 4:06 pm
In the US, many non-Jewish brides pick *every* aspect of their bridesmaids' attire-- down to what color nail polish they wear! If that's the norm where your sister lives, it would be a little disingenuous for her bridesmaids to scoff at having their outfits chosen
However...
It is certainly more menschlich for her to make sure that her friends are comfortable and feel pretty in what they wear.
There are also all the potential underlying issues and attitudes surrounding modest dress. Her friends may feel it is anti-feminist, old-fashioned, stifling, who knows. Her friends may also have issues with your sister and the changes she's made in her life... they may miss the "old" her, or may feel excluded from aspects of her current lifestyle. Requiring what they may view as excessively modest dress may bring some of those feelings to the forefront.
So, she'll need to weigh all this, and determine the most sensitive and inclusive way to handle it with her friends.
So, the short answer is that the bride can tell her bridesmaids for wear whatever she wants. The long answer is that your sister will probably want to tread carefully to preserve her friendships and make sure that the wedding is a day of happy memories for everyone involved.
A couple ideas:
1. Can she select a few different dress styles, running the gamut from her base-line comfort level to more traditionally tzanua, and ask her friends to select from among them?
2. Could she frame her choice for a tznius dress as a fashion choice, instead of a religious choice? Long sleeves and elegant, vintage style gowns have been in style for awhile, especially a la Kate Middleton. For example, instead of saying "For modesty reasons, you need to wear a dress that covers your collarbone, elbows and knees", she could make a Pinterest board or email photos of fashion spreads with dresses that fit the look, and ask her bridesmaids to help her find options. 1950s or 1930s style dresses are always chic.
3. If she's deciding on colors still, choosing a neutral, easy to match color like black or navy will give her more options to find dresses in a wider range of styles.
I was in a similar situation to your sister with my bridesmaids (I also really only had bridesmaids because I knew my friends would be hurt if I didn't.) Hatzlacha!
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greenfire
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Wed, May 28 2014, 4:13 pm
| Barbara wrote: | | You don't believe me? |
of course I believe you - it's a well-known fact ... I think I see my sisters in those pictures ... but guess what they wouldn't cooperate and they got stuck with dresses I didn't even pick ... ha ha ha - if they would have only went with the green
[I couldn't deal with them - I said mama & I have dresses - go naked - for really & they came with um I'd give myself away if I told you ... ha ha ha ... I'm still laughing it's so funny]
& my dd just paid an arm & a leg on a bridesmaid dress that could fit an extra person & some extra boobs - to make it fit ... so I am quite familiar with the drill
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imasinger
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Wed, May 28 2014, 4:20 pm
Goodness, I guess I take a stronger stand than many here.
Bridesmaids - bride picks the dress. Maybe not everyone does it that way any more, but it is still common enough a practice that under these circumstances, it's the obvious answer.
Guests - when my DD got married, I included a letter to non frum family and friends letting them know what to expect, including details of what was kabbalas panim, what chuppah would be like, the fact that there would be separate seating and dancing, washing and bentching practices, etc. Included in that letter was a request to dress modestly, and in a way that would make the bride and groom comfortable, which meant long sleeves, high neckline, and skirts below the knee for the ladies, and yarmulkes for the Jewish men.
We did not ask married ladies to cover their hair, though.
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Kitten
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Wed, May 28 2014, 4:41 pm
| imasinger wrote: | Guests - when my DD got married, I included a letter to non frum family and friends letting them know what to expect, including details of what was kabbalas panim, what chuppah would be like, the fact that there would be separate seating and dancing, washing and bentching practices, etc. Included in that letter was a request to dress modestly, and in a way that would make the bride and groom comfortable, which meant long sleeves, high neckline, and skirts below the knee for the ladies, and yarmulkes for the Jewish men.
We did not ask married ladies to cover their hair, though. |
This sounds like a very good idea. Then people know what to expect and don't feel ignorant. I went to several chasunas where the majority crowd was the type that think 3/4 sleeves and any other color than black are not tzniusdig, well you see what I mean. They had invited a few secular (or non-Jewish) relatives who had no clue what was happening and were embarrassed about their overall look. They were visibly not enjoying themselves.
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ElTam
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Wed, May 28 2014, 4:54 pm
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brides choose the bridesmaid's dresses all the time. She shouldn't feel apologetic if she is picking something tznius. Since the William and Catherine wedding, you are seeing many more modest dresses on the red carpet, at weddings, etc.
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imasinger
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Wed, May 28 2014, 5:29 pm
Oh, and my other brainstorm was to send an advance copy of the letter to anyone in the inner circle who would be likely to squawk. I told them that I needed their help correcting my rough draft.
They were flattered to be asked, and by the time they put in their 2 cents about the wording, they were totally comfortable with the ideas, and even supported them to others.
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Frumdoc
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Wed, May 28 2014, 7:06 pm
Easy enough to sit down with the bridesmaids and explain that as this is a religious ceremony there are various dress codes thst need to be kept to, and figure a dress design type that will suit them and the occasion, esp if they will be matching either style or color. Friends will understand if asked in a nice way, that is why they are your friends!
For other guests, in our various family simchas, with mix of orthodox, chassidish, reform, reconstructionist, non jewish spouses, secular and orthodox hating cousins, and non jewish friends, Including Catholic, Hindu and Muslims, we have a big mix of what people know or think is appropriate.
Standard line at the bottom of each invite is " As this is a religious ceremony please dress modestly for the occasion".
People understand what this means, not to the point of 100% tzanua, but dress conservatively. And we have a basket of pretty light colored silk or cotton pashminas or shawls for those who want, by the entrance to the hall. Some people phone and ask before, most understand. 99% of people if asked will appreciate the religious nature of a wedding and respect this, and your request, if couched graciously.
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penguin
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Wed, May 28 2014, 7:10 pm
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Not reading thru e/t, but (esp the poster who regretted asking her Mom to wear a sheital) there are (many?) Rabbonim who won't make a bracha in the presence of erva of any type and would turn their back on the women under the chuppah who are not covered.
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amother
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Wed, May 28 2014, 7:23 pm
Mixed or separate seating is more complicated than what people wore in my experience. Although I am not the type to get upset over head coverings as most of my dh's family don't cover.
We had a good compromise, although it caused much aggravation (and me lots of tears) beforehand. My mil refuses to have separate seating and even when there is usually goes to sit on the mens side and complains loudly about segregation, my parents and some of their friends were very uncomfortable with the idea of sitting with some of the less covered up ladies...Mil wanted mixed dancing or separate with no mechitza, my family would not even get up to dance in front of men.
I wanted everyone to be happy...
We had mixed seating, except for two or three men or women only tables, which were situated right next to the relevant dance areas. Dancing was at one end, and I got an extra mechitza to fully separate the women's dance floor from the nearby mixed tables. I had to assign one person to push back the mechitza every time my mil pushed it away so she "could open up the floor" but overall it was a great solution, and most people were happy and felt respected, other than my mil who is anti orthodox, so I was never going to please her, but she knew I tried...
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chaos
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Thu, May 29 2014, 12:02 am
In the US, it wouldn't be unheard of for the bride to select the specific dress for the bridesmaids to wear, regardless of who is paying. However, I'm a big fan of letting the bridesmaids choose something they will be comfortable in. There was no way I was ever going to find a dress that my Orthodox sister-in-law and my vehemently anti-Orthodox sisters would be happy with, so SIL found a dress at a gemach and my sisters wore little jackets over their dresses and they looked great. One of my favorite pictures from the wedding is one of sisters and SIL together dressed in accordance with their personal preferences/values for the wedding. I wanted my Orthodox wedding to be as fun and as joyous as possible for my non-Orthodox and especially for my anti-Orthodox family and I didn't want to create further divisions or create yet more reasons for my sisters to hate Orthodoxy. In the end, they really enjoyed the wedding and even did some shtick!
As for the guests, we just had a short one sentence on our wedding website about modest dress for chuppah. Everybody managed to wear something conservative and appropriate. Many of the less religious guests took off the boleros/shrugs during the dancing, but I didn't care because I was just happy to see them getting into it and dancing up a sweat.
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