Why do these 2 weeks exist???

Twizzlers

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 4:41 pm

ora_43 wrote:

It sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Like you said, vacation is the perk for being a teacher. What's to "not buy" about that?

Teaching isn't usually very well-paid, even though in most places it requires training and skill and is a fairly intense job. I think parents need to keep in mind that if they take away teachers' vacation in order to save on babysitting costs, they may find themselves paying a whole lot more in order to keep good people in the teaching profession once it's a year-round job.

But I think you're also seriously overestimating how much of that time teachers actually have off. Most teachers I know use a big percent of their "vacation" time working on grading, building/tweaking their course schedule for the next semester, and undergoing professional training.

I'm not contradicting myself. As I said, teachers in frum schools already have off all the days I wrote in my first post PLUS the entire July and August (or however the 8 week day camp season falls out). Why in heavens do they "need" a week and half in June, and a week and a half in September?? Summer vacation is 8 weeks, not 11 or 12. And if it IS meant to be 11 or 12, then there should be no reason for us to pay a full 10 months tuition when there is not a full 10 months of school.

I dont think I'm overestimating at all.
Do you think other professions never have to take work home with them? Or come in on "vacation" days for professional training?
"tweaking a course schedule" - seriously? I spend hours of my non working time "tweaking a schedule" for my kids that are off from school! Maybe I should be entitled for a vacation just for that.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but the only day that I am off aside from actual yom tov is Tisha B'av. I work 6 days a week, till at least 3 on erev shabbos and yom tov, and the past 2 years I've worked on purim as well. And I do all this to pay for my kids tuition. And I should feel sorry for the poor teachers who need even more vacation??

Twizzlers

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 4:46 pm

kb wrote:

I think twizzlers was commenting on the fact that she's paying tuition for a month that she still has to find childcare for her children. I definitely don't feel the schools are required to accommodate me, but if I'm paying a month of tuition for two weeks, and then I still have to pay for babysitting for the other two weeks, to me that is unfair. If I'm paying for a month of childcare I should get a month of childcare.

This. If the school is charging me for a full months tuition for September, then yes, they should be REQUIRED to be open for the full month (obviously excluding yom tov.) Or, give me a cheaper price for that month so I can afford a babysitter for the non-school days.

And btw, my boys yeshiva that starts September 2? Hah! The first day is only till 12. The second day is only till 1:50. Finally the third day they have a full day till 4:20. Oy those poor teachers. Rolling Eyes

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 6:18 pm

2 weeks? Is that all? Here in Israel most kids have all summer off. There are some camps here and there but nothing like in america. My daughter had a camp from her gan for the entire july but in august she was home. Now, this summer she was lucky as was I as I am between jobs. Last summer, it was very hard and I had to scrounge around finding her play dates and other things and I had to take off. I worked 3/4 days and it was a whole month that she had no organized activities.
It is extremely hard to organize the summer here as well. A whole month of trying to figure out which parent has to take off for this amount of days and then the other one.
Its hard. Thats for sure.

causemommysaid

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 6:52 pm

Twizzlers wrote:

I agree. I cant think of a job that has more time off than a teacher.

yes they dont get paid a lot. assume a teacher in a frum school earns about 40K maybe 45K. thats not a large salary but you also have to take into account their reduced tuition benefits which in some schools their kids go free of charge plus they have vacation the same time as their kids so they never have to pay for extra daycare. That adds up to a whole lot of money. Plus they have a ridiculous amount of time off from work. 2 months of summer plus all yom tov, chol hamoed, most secular holidays, erev yom tov, extra days before pesach and succos, isru chag....

I just simply can't understand why they need even more time between school ending and school starting.

either the camps should start earlier and end later or the schools should end later and start earlier. or a compromise between the two.

MamaBear

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 7:26 pm

Once I had a preschool director talk nasty about a diff. pre-k that had a summer camp using the same teachers as during the school year. She thought those teachers needed a break. I thought this was ridiculous. Um, everyone human would love a summer off from responsibility but that's not how it works as a grownup. You usually have a job or kids or both. Especially pre-k teachers - they're not busy taking teacher development classes during the summer or lesson planning like teachers of older kids.

Anyhow, I thought this was a great model. Many teachers love the idea of working during the summer for added income. Parents often want some sort of program for their kids in summer for either childcare/work reasons or as a help to entertain their child. By having it at the same school with the same teachers, it wasn't such a crazy break in routine for the kid. I saw it as a win win.

SRS

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 7:43 pm

Twizzlers wrote:

I'm lost. Why would school be less expensive if there were more days or school and why is the school responsible for your cash flow planning? Did you know that in many private schools and certainly in universities and colleges, you just pay at the beginning of the semester, quarter, or trimester and payments are not spread over 10-12 months to accommodate cash flow?

Twizzlers

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 8:28 pm

SRS wrote:

I'm not talking about university or college. Those work differently because A- you pay for classes or credits and B- this whole babysitting thing is not an issue.

This post was regarding children that cannot be left alone by themselves. I dont know where you are from, but where I live, schools charge by the month. Therefore, the fact that I have to pay a full months tuition for September, PLUS a babysitter for the first week since school doesnt start until Sept. 8 "BECAUSE THE TEACHERS NEED A BREAK" is what I have an issue with. And this scenario repeats itself in June. This has nothing to do with cash flow planning; rather having to pay double childcare for the same time period.

And btw, the day camps are not much better. My kids camp ended on a Thursday. I paid for an 8 week session (as it was stated on their contract). When I asked why there was no camp on friday, I was told that some campers and staff go away for the weekend so its not worth opening on friday. Uh, what about those of us that dont go away and need to find childcare yet again for this day that should have been part of the contract?

I guess if there was a legitimate reason for there being no school on these days, I may be able to understand. But the "teachers need a break" business is just ridiculous IMO.

Barbara

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 8:55 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

Are the counselors at your kids' camps all teachers? That wasn't the case when I went to camp, nor is it the case at any camp where DS has gone. Or where any of his friends have gone, for that matter. So it's a red herring to talk about teachers. Instead,talk about college kids, who are already going back to school, and high school kids, who would like a break.

Beside that, for every family that hates a break, there are families that need and want the vacation time. Not everyone can have what they want.

lovingmother

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 9:32 pm

Maybe we should rephrase this topic.
Why do schools/camps charge tuition if they don't run for the whole month?
Of course I would love to spend two weeks with my kids. I want nothing more. But in June I paid a full month of tuition - even though one of my kids had FIVE school days. But camp started in june, So I also had to pay camp. I paid camp for August, even though there were only two weeks of camp, so where am I supposed to get more money to pay for another two weeks?
DONT CHARGE TUITION FOR THE WEEKS YOU DON'T PROVIDE A SERVICE!!!!
I paid camp and school for an overlap, my kid can only be in one place at a time.
As for teachers being underpaid, they are not. The standard amount of hours for a full time job is 2,080 hours per year. Teachers don't work nearly that many hours. The ratio of their salary to their hours is the same as the ratio of most people's hours to their salary. They might appreciate the time off, but so would everybody.

SRS

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 9:35 pm

Twizzlers wrote:

I still don't understand your complaint and what you would expect the solution to be. Do you really expect to give head checks in various amounts based on the number of days of school? The total would still be the same and the administrative work would be a nightmare. This is why other private schools (with kids who can't watch themselves) tend to ask for one, two or three checks, not 10. Ten is a gift to your cash flow and creates a lot of problems in school when checks bounce and when people drop out and the budget gets turned upside down.

Every school I know of charges by the school YEAR and collects by the MONTH.

I heard of a camp that decided not to reopen for a the last scheduled day or two. Yes, that is outrageous. The parents were not warned, were left making last minute plans when they had a plan, and even if the amount was small, refund checks should have been send out as a proper gesture.

As for the teachers needing a break, school are in session for a certain number of days (let's pretend it is 180 like public schools) and if school were to increase to 200 days it will cost more. I'm sure if schools thought that their parent body wanted more school and was prepared to pay more, some school would test drive the idea. I'd be game if I wasn't cutting off an arm and a leg each month!

Sun, Aug 24 2014, 9:40 pm

I don't know about school, but play group is definitely per month. (Vs Israeli gan which is per year, and you pay for a full month of vacation. But that is stated in the contract). Playgroup contacts just say last date "to be determined". It's very frustrating.

Proof: I started one playgroup late due to a move, and did not owe her anything extra, vs in Israel, when they charge 12 months, and even if you don't go for the whole time they will charge you extra for the month of bain hazmanim.

amother

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 12:09 am

amother wrote:

~~Shame, now you all have to figure out to actually spend time with your kids for a couple of weeks without letting the TV/computer babysit them...~~

Ok, I know that wasn't nice, but come on seriously - for 2 weeks you can't just try to enjoy your own kids without freaking out that someone else won't be doing your job??

I don't really think this post deserves an answer but here it is: I would LOVE to enjoy my child but I need to work for a living. Thank you.

amother

Mon, Aug 25 2014, 12:32 am

alte mamme wrote:

Yeah, I remember feeling that way when my kids were in playgroup. It would be better if they just stated it was a fee for the year, like the schools do.

That is what I do. I am a playgroup Morah. I state that playgroup is in session 9-2 every day, and give them a playgroup calendar detailing all vacation days like the schools do. Then I state the annual playgroup tuition for the year, $2900 per child, and request ten monthly checks of $290 to be paid according to hte parents preference august thru May or septmeber through June. That way nobody feels like they are paying too much mmoney for the month of nissan for example. I once had parents who gave me two checks for the year, one in sEptember and one in January. And if any parent has financial difficulties, eg is made redundant during the playgrup year, or checks bounce, then I am patient in the extreme despite the financial hardship it causes me to have to wait for my checks.