Anti-semitism - the reason to come on Aliya

Sanguine

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 6:59 am

I found this interesting:

France Leads World Aliyah For the First Time Ever

Nothing like a little anti-semitism to set people's priorities right

Quote:

"France is today the leading country for Jewish emigration to Israel. It has never been before," said Ariel Kandel, who heads the French office of the agency.

Kandel cited figures from the Israeli Ministry of Immigrant Absorption showing that, as of August 31, a total of 4,566 Jews had left France for Israel this year.

The figure well outpaced Ukraine, which came in at second with 3,252 immigrants. Ukraine has been the site of great unrest since tensions flared in May, with violence often targeting the local Jewish community.

Coming in third was Russia with 2,632 new immigrants, and the United States at 2,213.

So why do people make Aliya, and why don't they? People only come on aliya when their life in Chu"l isn't great anymore? Is Israel only a safe haven against anti-semitism?

Last edited by Sanguine on Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:36 am; edited 2 times in total

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 7:26 am

Do you want anti Israel Jews davening for more violence there?
Repulsive reasoning. You're almost like that ""person"" who wrote Brussels shooting is good because Belgians will make alia.
As for "fear based" aliyot, wait until they get frightened from violence in Israel and come back, some already did. Or when they'll go and flood the gmachim for financial help, oh they already do, too.

Won't come back to check this thread, how can one wish for bad things on other Jews.

amother

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 7:36 am

Exactly. How about we just daven for Moshiach to take us out of Galus? We don't need to give ideas to Hashem. He promised to redeem us in the final Geulah and I am waiting for him to do that. He doesn't need our help besides trying out best to be good people, so we merit the final redemption.

rachel91

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:07 am

Not everybody can just pick up and leave, people have jobs, family, etc. And the financial situation in Israel isnt the best.
Not everybody speaks or understand ivrit.
Not everybody can handle the Israeli lifestyle/ mentality/ climate.
No, we should NOT daven for anti- semitism.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:20 am

Sanguine, even though I believe with all of my heart and soul that every Jew should come live in Israel, I would NEVER say that we should daven for antisemitism. There will always be Jews outside of Israel and so why should we wish antisemitism on them? Thats a terrible thigns to daven for, at any time.

And yes, Israel is a haven for any Jew to come to in time of need. Baruch Hashem we have such a place for us to come. I hope that never stops. until every last persecuted Jew comes here to live a freer life as a Jew.

And of course there are many Jews that come to Israel not for any other reason but because it is their life long dream to live in the Jewish state or in Hashem's country(different view points about being a state and all) but there will always be Jews that come out of being persecuted. What about all of the ethopians, russians and any other Jews who could not practice Judaism where they came from? Here they are free to practice how they see fit.

Never daven for antisemitism, daven that all of the troubles in the world, for Jews and non Jews, end soon and Mashiach comes before shabbat starts in a few hours.

Sanguine

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:22 am

rachel91 wrote:

It depends if you believe that living in EY is a priority for Frum Jews. The Jews in France have all the same excuses as you but they overcame them all when anti-semitism set in. Forget the excuses and say what the "brave amother" said - She's waiting for Moshiach

rachel91

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:31 am

Sanguine wrote:

Those are not excuses, but valid reasons.
Yes, we are all praying and waiting for moshiach.
It has nothing to do with being brave or not.
Not everybody's priority/ability is to live in Israel, why are you trying to force your views on everybody else, by using terms as 'praying for anti semitism'?

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:35 am

Sanguine wrote:

I wasn't going to come back but... yeah. Someone sent me a pm to develop my point.

Ok, so "the Jews of France" are still in France. And some don't have any reason to not make aliya except not really wanting. Or some, antisemitism or not, are ready to take all risks to make aliya. Also what counts is those who will still be there in 5 years.
You really think the third community in the world (kah) is empty now? think again, come here (gasp!) and see all the thriving kehilot, shuls and schools opening constantly, BT wave, and kippas everywhere. You don't want your country judged by the media yardstick, do the same (but that's another story). Don't wish ill on 600 000ish fellow (yes!) Jews nor on other countries' Jews.
But still, thanks for showing non leumi people why they don't really belong unless they can shut up about their ideas.

And now, off to prepare shabbes again.

rachel91

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 8:45 am

Sanguine wrote:

Response to a few posts - I'm not praying for anti-semitism (changed it). I'm not praying to strengthen communities in Chu"l. But I am praying that all the Jews pick up and come to Israel and together we'll all greet Moshiach when he comes.

Can you please explain why you need ALL Jews in Israel now?
We will all come, when moshiach comes iy'h, but not everyone has the ability to move now.

Sanguine

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 9:56 am

rachel91 wrote:

Can you please explain why you need ALL Jews in Israel now?
We will all come, when moshiach comes iy'h, but not everyone has the ability to move now.

I personally don't need all the Jews in Israel. But Hashem gave us a gift of Eretz HaKodesh. We pray at the Kotel HaMaaravi. There are many mitzvot that we can only keep in Eretz Yisrael (even now, and even if you're not a Zionist). In our daily life we take Trumot and Maaserot. We plow our fields leaving Leket and Peah. We have Birchat Kohenim every single morning. Now we're about to have a year of Shmitta (like being company for Shabbat, only this time Hashem is our host)... Now, I'm here already but I think things like this work as an Am and I think it's kind of ungrateful to tell Hashem that we don't want his Eretz HaKodesh with all it's mitzvot. Send us Moshiach and then we'll come. Does that mean you have more emuna BeViat HaMoshiach, or do I, who didn't bother setting up house in Chu"l?

So that's how we show our real emunah. Nothing is holding us back. We don't wait to be dragged here. We run to come just as we do with all Mitzvot. When an important visitor is expected, Is he the first to arrive or the last? We're here rolling out the red carpet for Moshiach and I guess I really do need ALL the Jews in Israel to prepare and wait.

5mom

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 10:10 am

To those who need Moshiach to arrive before you will consider coming to Israel: When Moshiach comes, will you suddenly know how to speak Hebrew? Will the Israeli economy suddenly change?
I pray that people will accept Hashem's great gift to us with open arms and on its own terms.

rachel91

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 10:15 am

Sanguine wrote:

Not wanting and not having the ability are two different things.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 10:17 am

Sanguine wrote:

Sanguine, this argument has been going on since the beginning of time and the beginning of imamother (some time in 2004)
You are not going to change their minds and they are not going to change your mind.
I think the best thing here, truly, is to just agree to disagree.

(I completely agree with you Smile

)

rachel91

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 10:20 am

5mom wrote:

I do speak Hebrew, I wasn't only talking for myself here.