The words are YOM TOV

zaq

Sat, Oct 11 2014, 7:02 pm

Yontif is Yiddish. It's spelled Yom Tov in Yiddish as in Ivrit, but Yiddish rules of pronunciation are (as they are in numerous other languages) that where you have an M sound followed by a T or D or K, the M is pronunced as an N. Compare "Yonkipper", which is how you pronounce Yom Kippur in Yiddish. Similarly, where a B precedes a T or D or K, it is pronounced like a P, as in "bupkes", spelled bobkes.

"Yontif" is neither nonstandard nor slang. It is perfectly standard and grammatical YIDDISH, as is "GUT (Gimel, vov, tes) Yontif". GOOD Yontif, otoh, is a bastardized blend of English and Yiddish.

Motley expressions painful to the ears of linguistic purists would vanish if people would only decide which language to use during any given conversation and stick to it, instead of mixing languages like so many salad ingredients. Allowances can be made for unique foreign expressions that have no equivalent in the language being used at the time.

sunlight

Sat, Oct 11 2014, 8:58 pm

OMG lolololol...

YOM TOV is yom tov. People (like me) don't think into what we're saying that much, that's why it comes out gut yom tov.

And yes, shalosh seudos is the 3rd meal, def not yiddish.

Yes I speak Yiddish, somewhat anyway Smile

ROFL

Sat, Oct 11 2014, 9:01 pm

The third meal is seudat shlishit. That is in hebrew. In Yiddish it is shalosh seduos. Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew German Polish Hungarian Russian and many other nations that Jews were sent out to. It is not a holy language for Jews , it is one that was forced to be a jewish language by others

m in Israel

Sat, Oct 11 2014, 10:37 pm

Maya wrote:

I'm a native Yiddish speaker, as are all my friends and family, and I have never heard anyone say Yonkippur.

Have you also never heard anyone say "yuntif"? You posted earlier that yuntif is not Yiddish (although according to the YIVO it is) -- so what IS the Yiddish word for Chag, in your experience?

Maya

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 5:19 am

m in Israel wrote:

Have you also never heard anyone say "yuntif"? You posted earlier that yuntif is not Yiddish (although according to the YIVO it is) -- so what IS the Yiddish word for Chag, in your experience?

There is no Yiddish word for chag. People may say yomtov or yontif, depending on their preference. But it's not an official way of saying yomtov in Yiddish.

YIVO seems to be only for academics these days. Casual Yiddish speakers, as in chassidim and such, don't really care about the YIVO rules.

frummies

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 5:51 am

Jewishmofm wrote:

that depends on your language of choice. and do you say GOOD yom tov? when tov is already a modifier?

Thanks for pointing that out. I never thought about it like that.
I now greet ppl with 'Chag sameach' it's the most grammatically correct way that I know.
And ftr Yiddish speakers do say shalosh seudos (or some form of that) but to say 'the third meal' in Yiddish would technically be 'dritter seuda' or something along those lines (I'm not 100% fluent in Yiddish)

frummies

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 5:53 am

Jewishmofm wrote:

that depends on your language of choice. and do you say GOOD yom tov? when tov is already a modifier?

Thanks for pointing that out. I never thought about it like that.
I now greet ppl with 'Chag sameach' it's the most grammatically correct way that I know.

And ftr Yiddish speakers do say shalosh seudos (or some form of that) but to say 'the third meal' in Yiddish would technically be 'dritter seuda' or something along those lines (I'm not very fluent in Yiddish)

mo5

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 5:55 am

gp2.0 wrote:

I always figured the N in yontif comes from the same place as the N in yanky...(Yaakov is always pronounced yankev in Yiddish)

The n in Yankev - is from the ayin.

miami85

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 6:00 am

ROFL wrote:

To be more precise, I did a project about this many years ago in elementary school--so forgive me for not having the source. The NAME of the meal is "shalosh seudos" because it has the importance/status of all 3 meals. Therefore we call it that. It's not "Yiddish" it's hebrew. In "Yiddish" it gets more smushed b/c it's said fast

I would think that the Yuntif is similar to "Yanky" or that it's a contraction of "yom tov" --> "yum tiv" and the m-->n in Yiddish. I remember once hearing how I think, forgive me, that it's Polish (?) Jews that originated the whole "n" thing, and there was a reason behind it I don't remember if it was a pronunciation thing or a real reason why they did it. I will try to research it.

mo5

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 6:01 am

ROFL wrote:

. Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew German Polish Hungarian Russian and many other nations that Jews were sent out to. It is not a holy language for Jews , it is one that was forced to be a jewish language by others

Not sure where you get that bolded part from. Jews spoke Yiddish even in places where the language around them was not of Germanic origin. Jews have been speaking other languages as their 'daily language' for thousands of years- Aramaic was an early one.
Also not sure where chag sameach comes from-

imasoftov

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 2:27 pm

mo5 wrote:

Also not sure where chag sameach comes from-

According to this article (in Hebrew) it comes from the Yiddish phrase

http://hebrew-academy.org.il/2.....7%94/

zaq

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 3:30 pm

mo5 wrote:

The n in Yankev - is from the ayin.

Correct. The ayin isn't really supposed to be a silent letter; it's supposed to be pronounced the way the Edot haMizrach do, deep in the throat. If you don't do it quite right, it comes out something like "ng", hence Yaangkov, which becomes Yankov.

Chana Miriam S

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 3:50 pm

frummies wrote:

And not yontiff or any other variation Smile

Just putting it out there

Yeah. Cause there is only 1 way to do things in Judaism.

Signed,

someone who does NOT use Yontif, but 'gets' that there are lots of people smarter, frummer and more traditional than me, who do AND who knows that there is halacha and then there is minhag AND who knows that there are 70 faces to the torah.Do you?

Yocheved84

Sun, Oct 12 2014, 5:29 pm

frummies wrote:

And not yontiff or any other variation Smile

Just putting it out there

What a way to ingratiate yourself! I'm sure you'll get many fans here.

::sigh::