Religious Jewish Housekeeper - What do you think?

etky

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 7:58 am

m in Israel wrote:

I had exactly the same image in my mind!

Actually, more like Mrs. Hughes and Mr. Carson (the housekeeper and butler from Downton Abbey) rolled into one. Very Happy

m in Israel

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 8:01 am

r_ch wrote:

I understand why. There'd be no problems with bishul akum and non-Jewish influences on your kids should the cleaner happen to babysit a while.

I agree. Actually in the community that I lived in the U.S., frum household help such as a babysitter or cleaning lady actually commanded a premium price because it was much harder to find and there were many people who were more comfortable with a frum person. People also were more comfortable in terms of Kashrus issues when the employee was shomer Kashrus. I paid significantly more for my babysitter who was a frum woman then I would have paid if I was willing to hire a non-Jewish or non-frum babysitter -- but it was important to me that I had no worries about Kashrus, and she was able to share in the chinuch of my children (talk to them about yom tov, say Brachos with them, etc.).

Iymnok

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 8:02 am

It sounds like OP has a preconceived opinion of how frum women feel about this so she worded it defensively.
We all do this stuff daily without feeling degraded (for the most part).
If we were to be offered a job with an impressive title that praises the skills we already have and respects our humanity, the responses would be much more positive.
I think many of us might do such a job- for someone else...
Everyone needs recognition and ha karas hatov.

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 8:18 am

With apologies to those who don't know the reference, it sounds to me like OP wants a house-elf.

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 8:51 am

I'm interested,PM me where you live.

causemommysaid

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:20 pm

oliveoil wrote:

It's not so crazy - it's like a management type job. It's her job (from the sound of it) to oversee the other staff and the general running of the house and fill in when needed. Definitely not unheard of.

I know a family with 2 sets of twins followed by 2 or 3 singleton children - all extremely close in age. They have multiple nannies and a cook and a general "personal secretary" to oversee it all.

well then it is a completely different job than what the OP is looking for. why compare?

she is not a housekeeper. she is a house manager or estate manager or whatever.

totally different job description. I agree with the poster who said she is misleading.

causemommysaid

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:22 pm

amother wrote:

I'm interested,PM me where you live.

how do you propose she do that?

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:26 pm

amother wrote:

With apologies to those who don't know the reference, it sounds to me like OP wants a house-elf.

People like you were asked not to respond.

oliveoil

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:32 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

Not really. That position is often referred to as housekeeper.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:32 pm

amother wrote:

People like you were asked not to respond.

You sound very controlling, both in your ad and in your posts.

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:38 pm

DrMom wrote:

You sound very controlling, both in your ad and in your posts.

You made an assumption that all amothers on this thread are one and the same.
The reason I feel compelled to respond to you is because I found your post, which describes OP as Leona Helmsley disgustingly nasty. And I reported it. Every poster here has a right to voice their opinion, and disagreements will always be. But insulting others because they think differently than you is nasty. I don't believe that is what imamother is for.

ValleyMom

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:44 pm

There is NOTHING wrong with your needing a second housekeeper.
Just be very specific AND brief in your job description.
You can give more details during the in person interview.

Shomer Shabbos Housekeeper wanted:

-NO heavy house work.

-Basic laundry

-carpool

-Grocery shopping

-Prepare dinner

The interested client will contact you with questions and THEN you can respond in person or via phone.

MaBelleVie

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 12:58 pm

amother wrote:

You made an assumption that all amothers on this thread are one and the same.
.

Why would anyone else need to post as amother?

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:07 pm

What a thread!

I'm glad a Jewish woman is able to afford a lifestyle which supports multiple employees for household management.

I'm just totally confused as to what OP wanted when posting.

If she wanted to know -
Would a frum woman take this job, my personal opinion is that if you have that kind of money post an ad stating you want a frum woman, interview one or two and you will have your answer

Frum women come in all sizes shapes colors and from many different cultures. Standards vary. I assume the OP would consider this job for herself degrading.

I believe there are women out there who would be interested, and would take this job.

OP would do well to hire a professional writer to put together her ad

Good Luck!

marina

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:09 pm

Quote:

You are not my cleaning lady, you are my housekeeper. I have a cleaning lady for heavy work such as cleaning bathrooms and floors. But you will manage her, and make sure that she does her job properly, to my standards.

I need you to keep the house in order. I am very meticulous. I like when my kitchen cabinets and closets are clean and organized.

You will be in charge of laundry. We generally do our own washing. Folding, ironing, and putting the laundry in its proper place is on you. Occasionally, when things are particularly hectic and the washing piles up, we may want you to throw in a load or two.

You will load the dishwasher, and wash the sink, countertops, and stove. The refrigerator too. You will polish the silver when needed.

Light cooking is required. I mean light. We do not require three course meals, and I prefer that you not spend your day cooking. Just throw in some chicken in the oven. Cut up some fresh vegetables. A simple soup every now and then. We are fine with leftovers. We freeze mostly everything and are fine with it. We just want a simple dinner. If you love to cook, and want to do something more, that is fine. As long as your time is well managed and it doesn't jeopardize the rest of the work.

We like to do our own shopping. But we may ask you to pick up some basics.

We may want you to drop off/pick up DS from school.

I do not want to micro-manage you. You manage your own day.

No childcare involved. We have a relatively small family. The Youngest is almost 10.

I need about 25 hours a week. But I may ask for more on occasion, such as before Yom Tov. Yes, Pesach cleaning is on you, within the parameters of the job.

I will always treat you with respect, and I expect the same in return. Please recognize that you are entering our lives. You may overhear a conversation that is meant to be private, and you may occasionally get a whiff that I am going to the mikvah. Please leave this job at the door when you go home.

Please let me know if this is something you would like to do. And please also tell me what your salary requirement would be. If you tell me that you want a salary that is not consistent with what this position pays in general, that means that you don't really want the job.

OP, I think it might be useful to you to see how this would look in a different context. I'm an attorney and I'm hiring a legal assistant. If I'm you, here's my ad:

Quote:

You are not my secretary. You are my legal assistant. I have a secretary to answer my phones and bring me coffee. But you will manage her, and make sure that she does her job properly, to my standards.

I need you to keep my briefs in order. I am very meticulous. I like when the documents are formatted in the exact way the court likes it. You will be in charge of keeping up with the civil procedure rules. We generally write our own briefs, but figuring out the particular court's rules is on you. Occasionally, when things get a bit hectic, we will want you to prepare a basic brief or two.

You will prepare outlines for presentations. You will prepare tables of authorities and tables of content. You will write my emails for me, the letters too. You will call my clients and schedule meetings when needed.

Light docketing is required. I mean light. We have computer programs that do the bulk of the work, but you will need to input data and check deadlines. As long as your time is well managed and it doesn't jeopardize the rest of the work.

We like to do our own redacting. But we may ask you to take care of some basic redacting jobs.

You will have to help other assistants review discovery and organize thousands of documents. I do not want to micro-manage you. You manage your own day.

No high tech work is required. We have our own e-discovery employees.

I need about 25 hours a week, but I may need more before a hearing or trial.

I will always treat you with respect, and I expect the same from you. Please recognize that you are entering our lives. You may overhear a conversation that is private and subject to attorney-client confidentiality. Please leave this job at the door when you go home.

Please let me know if this is something you would like to do. And please also tell me what your salary requirement would be. If you tell me that you want a salary that is not consistent with what this position pays in general, that means that you don't really want the job.

Do you really not see how any normal office would never post the above? Do you not see how the above is condescending and how any normal legal assistant would move right along after seeing the above. Do you not see how you present yourself as God's gift to the legal profession?

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:16 pm

OP here.
Marina: We are in agreement. I would not word an ad like this.
You are an attorney. Read the entire post. Understand my intent. And then you will surely understand where I'm coming from.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

OP here.
Marina: We are in agreement. I would not word an ad like this.
You are an attorney. Read the entire post. Understand my intent. And then you will surely understand where I'm coming from.

You said your purpose was "research."

What are you researching? Are you actually looking to hire someone for the position you described, or is this some sort of sociological experiment?

And why is this thread posted under "interesting discussions"?

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:20 pm

r_ch wrote:

I understand why. There'd be no problems with bishul akum and non-Jewish influences on your kids should the cleaner happen to babysit a while.

Still many poskim from ancient times on allowed even non jewish, non Kosher wetnurses.

Read Mothers and children by Elisheva baumgarten

marina

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:32 pm

amother wrote:

OP here.
Marina: We are in agreement. I would not word an ad like this.
You are an attorney. Read the entire post. Understand my intent. And then you will surely understand where I'm coming from.

You know what? Why don't you actually post your ad? Then people might understand you. As you can see by reading this thread, many people are misunderstanding your intentions. Don't keep getting dramatic and defensive. Just write out your ad clearly and people will tell you what they think.

Imogen

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 1:38 pm

We tended to have Jewish aupairs, simple reason being I had no relatives around to help me when the kids were young, a lot of kids, very close in age meant a lot of work and responsibility. We had gentile au pairs who were good, but the Jewish girls we had from Europe and Israel were amazing, like older sisters and in time we grew to love them, attend their weddings and celebrate their achievements.

I would indeed have a religious Jewish Housekeeper if I could. I believe it would make life simpler and the risk of mistake or deliberate sabotage would be removed. Of course 99% of gentile staff would never seek to do anything deliberately that could compromise a family, but in my days as a language teacher to foreign aupairs the stories the girls would tell of unkind families and the way the aupairs sought revenge rather unnerved me.

I think a frum housekeeper would be someone we as a family would end up treating as one of us, literally, she would become part of our family. I know from Israel friends who do have frum housekeepers who are fabulous and do everything, from cooking, cleaning and even gardening with pride. They are paid well and treated very nicely, when we as Jews have another Jew serve us we have to be aware of our behaviour. I found the wording of the job outline placed by the op rather sharp and blunt, but took it as a rough draft to outline her job description rather than an actual ad for help.

If we can help a fellow Jewess to earn a living that is a good thing, it is all about the right attitude from both sides.