corelle for shabbos: yay or nay?

etky

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 12:49 am

zaq wrote:

I disagree entirely. Stoneware is heavy and thick, so it takes up a lot of space, and is hard to handle because of the weight. It is not chip-resistant. Corelle is thin and light and thus far more elegant, space-saving and easy to handle. The cost is comparable to "casual china" esp. if you get it on sale, and if a piece breaks under normal use during the first year, the company will replace it.

I agree, though I love my milchigs cobalt blue Denby stoneware that I got for my wedding and remarkably, about 95% of the original set has survived (for over 23 years!) despite very heavy, daily use. I selected it as a compromise bt. Corelle and china because I knew I only wanted 1 set for chalavi. However, it is sooo heavy and bulky, and stoneware does tend to chip if you're not careful. It also does not stack as nicely in the dishwasher.
We have Corelle, the round Shadow Iris,for besari (also 23 years old) and we use it for Shabbat lunch when it is just us. For Friday night I do like something more formal, even if it is just us, so we use our wedding china.
In general I adore Corelle. Maintenance and storage is a dream. I grew up with it and have even inherited some pieces of my grandmother's vintage sets from the Sixties. Some of the new patterns are to die for (including yours, Rubber Ducky!). If you do go for white though, I wouldn't get the really plain one. Get something textured or fluted - they have a few of those now - they're a bit more interesting.

June

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 2:07 am

another vote for corelle. like others said, some of the patterns are gorgeous! if I had to get a Shabbos set now, I would go with one of the textured white ones like this: http://www.shopworldkitchen.co.....rt=10 and play it up with pretty napkins, runner, etc.

hila

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 2:14 am

I love Correlle. We replaced our meat set about 3 years ago, with the square Iris pattern. Even teh soup bows are square, and they look very elegant IMHO.

They take up less room in the cupboard, and so far have not broken. I bought them here in EY from someone in Ezrat Torah who sells from her basement ( a lot cheaper than anyone else). We bought a set for 18, although if we are more than 12 I use paper, because of teh washing up. We dont have a dishwasher.

Our Chalavi is also Correlle - about 10 years old. (from the days when we had two suitcases as a luggage allowance and most of it was in our hand luggage).

(one of the best things I learned about from an American husband !)

Hila - the ex-Brit

Sanguine

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 2:45 am

This is my corelle. I don't see why china is nicer (the soup bowls have a lip so they don't look like cereal bowls). When I got married corelle had only 3-4 boring patterns. I bought this pattern 3 years later for Pesach and every year I "yearned" for these dishes year round. Luckily (?) my son reached up for a dish and dropped and broke a few of my Chametz ones (Yes, Corelle shatters into a million pieces on Israeli floors). So I happily turned these into year round.

Corning discontinued this pattern but I own 21 dinner plates since I bought extra open stock for a Seder one year.

DrMom

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 2:56 am

China is beautiful and elegant, but Corelle wins hands down for being lighter, less breakable, and for taking up much much less space (a key consideration here in Israel where apartments can be cramped). I'm sure the you-must-use-starched-linen-tablecloths-and-real-silver crowd would frown upon our use of Corelle, but who cares?

Our china is boxed up in our storage room. I don't think our kids even know we own china.

I don't like Corelle patterned dishes very much (the colors don't seem very intense), but their plain dishes can be very elegant, and easily dressed up or down with all sorts of tablecloths and runners.

I davka do *not* like shallow flanged soup bowls. The soup cools off too quickly and it's trickier for the kids to eat out of them.

etky

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 3:11 am

DrMom wrote:

AND the soup sloshes all over the place when you bring in individual bowls from the kitchen to the dining room table. My china comes with 'soup plates' like this and the kids hate helping with the soup course for this reason. Chicken soup is the worst, thicker soups are less of a problem. Sometimes when I've made chicken soup I'll use the Corelle or another set of stoneware that I got as a present instead of the china for Friday night for this reason.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 6:55 am

And here I was remembering a friend telling me she dreams of corelle for shabbes and yt...

RachelEve14

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:05 am

I haven't read the last 2 pages yet but....

what's the difference between a cereal bowl and a soup bowl?

We have Corelle. Four sets. Our oldest set had lunch plates which we use for first course. The other 3 newer sets only came with the tiny plates but it's not the end of the world. Lucky the set with the lunch plates is our Shabbot Basari. And our older sets came with nice glasses too.

Sanguine

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:21 am

RachelEve14 wrote:

I haven't read the last 2 pages yet but....

what's the difference between a cereal bowl and a soup bowl?

My nice corelle also has a deep bowl (not like a china almost flat soup bowl) but it looks a little classier than the regular cereal bowls. It's actually a little bigger with the top angling out and turned to make a ledge. I'll take a picture later when a smart phone comes home. After I made this set Chometz and went to pick new corelle for Pesach, I couldn't find a single pattern with this type of bowl

etky

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:33 am

It's more a matter of image than aesthetics. Years ago I commented to a co-worker that I would never consider buying Arcopal dishes which were, at that time, kind of ubiquitous here in Israel in lower-end restaurants and wedding halls. She said "why, what's the difference between Arcopal and Corelle?" (which she knew I used and loved). The truth is that there is no real difference - the look and feel is a bit different but they're both casual dinnerware made from highly tempered glass.
Granted, much more craftsmanship goes into china which has a more refined look than glassware but if a pattern 'speaks to you' what difference does it make if it's glass, stoneware or china? With a bit of thought you can set a lovely and festive table with any type of dinnerware.

Chayalle

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:36 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Perhaps this might be of use:

http://search.replacements.com.....0Lane

Thanks, Dolly, but at that price I'll start all over with another style....

I paid about $20 for a box of 4 when I bought mine originally.

musicmom

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 8:51 am

Definitely Corelle!

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 10:49 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

Yeah, but Corelle can be just as nice as China. It's just not as expensive, that's why people look down on it compared to China. That's what I find infuriating about this attitude. It's not really about what's nicer, it's about what's considered higher status. And that's the opposite of being more spiritual, which is what shabbos is really supposed to be about.

I agree that the knee jerk reaction is disconcerting. Sorry you're spending so much emotional energy by finding it infuriating. I guess I can see how it can be symptomatic of bigger things, the type of judgmentalism that's keeping us in galus, etc.
But your last sentence, about it being the opposite of Shabbos which is supposed to be more spiritual - now who would disagree with that? OTOH, the point is, and I think we're all in agreement here too, that we do reserve nice things for Shabbos and live on a different plane, in clothes, food, its presentation, how we spend the day, etc. Those of us who are the blue collar, other side of the tracks, funky, low key whatever simply have different standards. For us, a nice Corelle IS nicer.

BlueRose52

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:08 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Disconcerting, infuriating... same difference. Yours is a better choice of word, I suppose.

It just really bothers me when I see superficiality wrapped up in a facade of spirituality. It happens with clothing, with simchas, with shidduchim, with chessed projects, with fundraising campaigns... like you said, it's symptomatic of bigger things.

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:17 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

I'm in an OOT cocoon so may not have to face it as much as you. I can go for extended periods without thinking about it Very Happy

Barbara

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:31 am

I have far too much china. It just kind of multiplies. My late MIL's everyday meat dishes (Noritake). My late MIL's everyday dairy dishes (Noritake -- orange and harvest green monstrosities, boxed up in the bottom of my coat closet). My parents' never-used china converted to my dairy dishes. BIL and (ex?) SIL's wedding china (also Noritake). My wedding china (Lenox, I'm a rebel). Bits and pieces of other things that just sort of find their way to us.

I also have some Corelle.

I like my Corelle. Its easy to store. Easy to put in the microwave. But the lack of color saturation and crispness to the design, not to mention the feel of the dishes themselves, are not the same as china.

Raisin

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:39 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

Its not just the expense. That mikasa china op has is relaly not very expensive at all. But it means you have enough space to store 2 sets of china, which means you probably have a spacious house, which means you can afford a bigger house...

OP, what I would do to make both of you happy - get plain white corelle. Also have a set of say 8 or 10 china settings. Whenever you have less then 8 or 10 people at your table friday night use the china. For shabbos lunch and when you have more people use the corelle. Try and get sets that coordinate so you can use both together if necessary.

ruchelbuckle

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:53 am

yamz wrote:

How likely is it that you will have more broken/chipped dishes in the near future?If it's not very likely, or if you don't mind constantly replacing, then go ahead and buy china.

Very likely, as my kids do a lot of the serving.

yamz wrote:

As a side note, and I don't know if this resonates with you or your husband, but I can assure that some of the most beautiful and holiest Shabbos seudos were held in some very humble surroundings. Many of the tzaddikim and truly great Rabbis throughout history were (and still are) very poor. They certainly did not eat their meals on china; nevertheless, their Shabbos tables were resplendent, as they were adorned with an aura of majesty. If you choose the simpler dishes, purchase with confidence; you will be in very good company.

This is so true. Thank you for pointing this out. I don't think Rebbetzin Kanievsky agonized about shabbos dishes too much!

wiki wrote:

I would get some inexpensive, hardy stoneware (like what stores call "casual china"), in a fancier looking pattern. It'll probably maximize your balance of frugality, fanciness, and durability.

I don't really need stonewear, as frugality isn't an issue. I don't want to spending $200 on china every year, but that's not the real problem (plus, mikasa parchment isn't a particularly expensive set). I have stonewear that I got at Dansk (not sure if that place is still around), and it didn't really last. Plus it takes up a lot of room in the cabinets.

spring13 wrote:

Ah Mikasa Parchment. Every other person I know who got married in 2008-2009 has it because it was the nicest stuff you could register for at BedBath for a reasonable price. It shouldn't be too hard to replace broken pieces, no?

I am actually married 10+ years, Wink

, but my original China from Ne'eman in the Malcha Mall was chipped, cracked, etc....... so I replaced it with the Mikasa. It's not a matter of expense or ease, it's more like the image: "Can I get over the fact that I'm using corelle on shabbos?"

spring13 wrote:

FWIW, I went to so many families in Israel that had just Corelle, it's probably not that crazy a thing to do, especially if your family happens to be a little klutzy or otherwise prone to dish breakage.

I know I saw it a lot in Israel, but haven't seen it in America so much.

Chayalle wrote:

A couple of years ago I dropped all of my China dinner plates (Noritake set I inherited from my grandmother.) It's white with a burgundy and gold rim, so I went down to BB&B and bought their solid white w/gold edge dinner plates - they were like $1 apiece - I got 2 dozen dinner plates, and I bought the salad and soup bowls too.

Now, when it's just us I mix and match the cheaper dinner plates with the Noritake salad plates, and bowls, plus the serving pieces...and it looks very elegant. When I have lots of company, I use more of the BB&B set, and I can serve a crowd that way. With napkins in the pretty beaded rings my DD made me at school, and stemware, it can look really nice.

Sure, mix and match can look very nice....but as you say yourself, it's all china. We're not doing mix and match china and corelle.

BlueRose52 wrote:

BlueRose, you are correct. For me, it's part of the "attitude"-- it sounds silly, but most of my friends use China on shabbos, or nice paper if there are a lot of guests. It's like I don't want people to think like we are poor, or cheap, or have poor taste or anything like that. Now that I am typing this out....I realize how silly it is!

etky wrote:

It's more a matter of image than aesthetics.

BINGO! You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

Also, it's not such an issue of "give corelle to the kids"-- my kids can eat off of paper, or our weekday plain white corelle. It's more the problem that they help serve. they set the table, they unload the dishwasher, etc.... Plus they are not the only ones who have damaged china in this house! embarrassed

Thank you all....this was a very helpful thread. I am going with Corelle. Not sure which pattern. I like the embossed (I think it's called Bella Fiore) or Cherish.

I still have 7 Mikasa large plates (one is chipped, the other 6 are okay). I have 4 bowls and 5 small plates. I am not spending more money on the Mikasa right now, but will keep what I have, but will not use it on a regular basis. We have shabbos guests on a regular basis, so they will also get the corelle. If it makes a difference, my weekday fleishig dishes are a plain white corelle,

If you ever come to my house for shabbos or we end up making shidduchim with each other, and you figure out who I am, then please let me know!! Smile

nylon

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:56 am

I personally do not love Corelle--I don't like the feel of the plates. But I don't think there's anything wrong with using it if you like it. China is expensive.

ruchelbuckle

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 12:00 pm

Oh, and if anyone wants to weigh in on the patterns I am considering, please do so.

Cherish: square embossed
http://www.worldkitchen.com/en......html

Bella Faenza (I am leaning towards this one)
http://www.worldkitchen.com/en.....art=1

I would not use the mugs at the shabbos table....will need to get new glasses/water goblets (open to suggestions!)