shocked niece's school does not teach about potifar's wife

Raisin

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 5:16 pm

Whoever set my Biblical Hebrew GCSE (government exam given to 14-15 year olds in the UK) clearly liked the juicy stuff, Rus, Yehudah and Tamar and some other of these stories were included in the curriculum. We had an excellent teacher who taught us really well. She gave us the explanation that Satan wanted to stop Mashiach being born. So in order for him not to stop it some hanky panky needed to be going on. So Lot and his daughters, Tamar, Rus, Bassheva and David etc - they are all Mashiachs ancestors.

I know tamar and yehudah were skipped when we learnt that parsha at 10 or 11. I kind of understand why. I think it is important to teach to older classes though. Potiphars wife is integral to the story of Yosef so harder to skip, and much easier to whitewash. You really need to know what a harlot is to understand Yehudah and Tamar.

In any case in lubavitch we are encouraged to learn through the whole parsha with rashi each week (a little per day, either from the original or using a translation) as part of chitas so everyone who does this will come across these stories.

We absolutely learnt all the stories mentioned here at some point in either school or seminary. Still traumatised on many many levels by the pilegesh begivaah story.

Raisin

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 5:24 pm

studying_torah wrote:

I went to bais yaakov type schools and all the stories were very vague and only hinted to. Now that I'm an adult, I'd love to know what really happened and how to understand them - esp yehuda and Tamar, dovid and bas sheva etc.

I have no clue what pilegesh b'givah was even. embarrassed

Pilegesh b'givah - a Levi was travelling with his pilegesh (concubine). They stopped in Givaah. A townsperson puts them up. the other townspeople surround the house, demanding to rape the Levi. Instead, he gives them his pilegesh instead. They rape her until morning. The next morning the levi finds her dead, cuts her up into 12 pieces and sends each piece to each shevet. This leads to war with binyamin.

tigerwife

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 6:06 pm

etky wrote:

Interesting point. I guess Lot's daughters, though would be too taboo to teach to young kids even though there is no halachic complexity to the story. I can't imagine how it can be sanitized.

Now that you mention it... That is one story I actually do not remember learning in school at all! Unless I was seriously spacey (possibly, bit more likely it was skipped). I remember reading about it on my own in a book Rus that discussed the lineage of Moshiach. Come to think of it, Megillas Rus was probably not taught very thoroughly either after chapter 1 lol.
The point is, learning shouldn't stop after HS graduation. Tanach is fascinating.

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 6:18 pm

Raisin wrote:

Rape the levi? As in homosexually?

Truly horrific story. Any references where I can learn more and some sort of explanation for such animal behavior?

zaq

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 6:47 pm

amother wrote:

Rape the levi? As in homosexually?

Precisely.
So if we are discussing repetitive themes in tanach, as we were in another thread spun off from this one, here is another. Where else in Tanach do we find a lecherous crowd surrounding a house demanding that the balebos hand over a male guest to be used for immoral purposes, and what does the balebos offer instead?

Orchid

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 8:25 pm

zaq wrote:

Host- Lot
Guest- malachim
Offer- Lot's daughter.

Went to a standard RW BY school. Don't remember what we learned in elementary, but def. learned pilegesh b'giva in high school as well as all other "mature" stories in tanach. I"m actually kind of shocked that many posters here don't know basic stories in tanach (Tamar/Amnon, Pilegesh B'giva etc.)

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 8:59 pm

I read Lot's story on my own as a girl. Know why the daughters named their sons am on and moav? One was more embarrassed and name it from "my nation" and the other from "my father". Rashi's explanation was that if someone loves znus, he will do it with his daughters.

amother

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 1:02 am

amother wrote:

Aamother with the Yiddish links. Please post the continuation. Its not the gantze masse.

Lol. I didn't mean that literally, I just doubted there were yiddish readers here who don't own a set of their own. Glad someone bothered reading the pages. Here's the rest:

http://I.imgur.com/Pwt2fJe.jpg

etky

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 1:38 am

amother wrote:

Bummed I don't know Yiddish...

etky

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 1:46 am

amother wrote:

Rape the levi? As in homosexually?

Truly horrific story. Any references where I can learn more and some sort of explanation for such animal behavior?

Indeed. Sefer Shoftim ends on this horrible note, depicting the moral degeneracy and political disarray of the nation at the end of this period. This anarchy is the backdrop to the rise of Shmuel as a leader.

amother

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 9:27 am

amother wrote:

I'm also following along and I appreciate you posting it. Nowadays many kallahs don't get the tzene v'rena

cbsp

Sun, Jan 04 2015, 9:08 pm

amother wrote:

I'm also following along and I appreciate you posting it. Nowadays many kallahs don't get the tzene v'rena

Artscroll has a 3 volume set (in English). Best bas mitzvah gift I received, still read it yearly for the story of tisha b'av. I'm not chassidish, went to Bais Yaakov type schools.

DrMom

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 3:31 am

etky wrote:

Wow. Moral degeneracy in the extreme. How could it have gotten so bad?

tigerwife

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:40 am

DrMom wrote:

Wow. Moral degeneracy in the extreme. How could it have gotten so bad?

The story is there to highlight what a terrible point Bnei Yisroel got to when they had no leadership. This is before Shaul was anointed.

I wonder what this means for us today?

amother

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 1:45 pm

Original op here-

This discussion is utterly fascinating. I've learned so much here myself and I thought I was pretty well versed in tanach but still missed the story with the levi.

I just want to add my own story that having grown up in town before moving oot and having gone to a BY, there were many stories that were censored but for me it mostly had to do with jewish history and various rebbies. for example I never learned that the BY founder got married embarrassed

never was taught that Rav Solivachick from boston was related to the brisker rav (for some strange reason I had thought thedirect family had died out)

I also never understood what shir hasirim was all about until I worked up the courage to ask my DH embarrassed