how do so many frum people have so much money?

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 11:20 pm

Many chassidishe ladies don't pay for Internet like the rest of us, or spend on things that are necessities for others. In chassidishe communities the levush is important so it carries over into the strollers. I think they walk much more to get around. I personally could afford one, but the are so many more important things to me than a fancy stroller.
There are many jobs in the frum world that make a lot of money, you'd be surprised ex a Sofer, mohel, shochet, a rabbi in certain communities. There are many ways that Hashem sends money and it's not only by getting a college degree.

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 11:35 pm

As someone who grew up in NY and now lives nowhere close to NY, I can tell you a lot of these things are very much a "NY thing." Or at least issues dealt with primarily in larger Jewish communities.

The simpler OOT life extends to all these areas. Almost no one goes on real vacations, they just take an annual trip to wherever their family lives. No one goes to hotels for Pesach or Israel on any regular basis, no fancy camps, just a local day one....no fancy clothes, no excessive eating out (just a couple of cheap restaurants over here!) etc etc People for sure don't live in poverty but none of this craziness whatsoever.

No bugaboos and no extravagant mishloach manot.

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 12:06 am

Slightly off topic but all the bugaboo talk made me laugh. IYH I am going to New York soon with my baby. I have an old but decent stroller probably bought for about $350 3 kids ago.
I'm terrified it will be such a nightmare in the New York snow and slush. I told my dh today that I want to borrow someone's bugaboo or other stroller with big wheels.
So I think there is a difference. Haha.

Anion7

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 12:28 am

I hear you OP. I don't have kids yet so I can't talk about strollers but I understand the frustration. Pretty much all my married friends are supported, fully or mostly. Their parents pay necessities like rent and food, but also vacations and shopping. DH and I both work and save every penny. BH were careful and can afford a nice apartment, groceries and whateve it is we need when we need it. We haven't been on any vacation in the almost 2 hrs we've been married bc we know we'll need the money for other things, such as fertility treatments we're dealing with right now. My parents could probably help us but they're more modern and believe if we're ready to get married we should be ready to take care of ourselves. I do agree with them, but it's still hard. I grew up OOT and now live in NY and that's definitely an adjustment. I agree with the poster that said maybe the community you live in isn't for you. I'm here temporalily for school then I'm out! Too much pressure and I don't want my future children to feel it.

Side note: I'm not professional but I do my own wigs and my friends' and have been told I'm pretty good. If anyone on this thread is located in NY and needs a wash and set but can't afford one, I would HAPPILY do it free of charge. Please do not be shy to inbox me.

naturalmom5

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 1:01 am

amother wrote:

???????
Chicago has way more snow ice
I didn't see too many bugaboos there

justforfun87

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 2:29 am

I read through all the responses and feel like people are being harsh on OP. I would think she is asking her question in order to apply it to her life. I am always curious to know how people survive on one income because I would like to not have to work full time. I am even rude enough to ask my friends how they manage.

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 8:22 am

justforfun87- I think it depends how you say stuff and where you coming from. I'm a SAHM. If a working mother said to me- what do you do all day?- I might not appreciate it but I asked someone else the same question- am I hypocrite? I told her that I have no children home in the morning and I know she doesn't either so I was looking for some suggestions of what to do. It was clear that I wasn't judging her decision to stay home with no kids at home home, just looking for advice. I hope she didn't mind. I think it's the same here. You sound like you were asking in order to get advice and not just to be rude and nosy. They may not want to answer you....

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 8:30 am

I went to a MO high school where the tuition (back then - in 2006) was $24,000/a year. Most the kids lived in huge mansions and had their own cars.
I'm trying to think back to what kind of jobs their parents had...they worked as lawyers, doctors, dentists, accountants, engineers, jewelers, or something in real estate. AFAIK (from the students I was friends with), their parents didn't come from rich homes. Many of the students were grandchildren of holocaust survivors. So their parents were self-made millionaires.
many of these kids went to yeshiva/seminary, and those who became kollel couples - their parents are more than able to support them (remember, they were paying $24,000 for tuition alone...)

ora_43

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 8:50 am

sequoia wrote:

Still confused.

I am trying to get a degree. I don't write the senior thesis. At all.

Are you saying I will still get the degree if Hashem wills it?

To add to this - there's also Chazal's saying that whoever doesn't teach his son a trade, is teaching him to steal.

I don't know to what extent Jewish philosophy says effort -> wealth, but I think there's plenty of sources in Judaism for no effort -> not-wealth. Not all the time, for everyone, and it's a one-way relationship (ie, poverty doesn't mean a person didn't make an effort) - but still, a connection between income and education/effort.

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 8:54 am

amother wrote:

I grew up OOT from NY and now live in NY. The extravagance was worse in Los Angeles than in NY so not sure what you're talking about. I believe it's worse in London as well FME.

ora_43

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 8:55 am

Another possible explanation for why frum people might have more money: a community that encourages high-earning careers.

Philosophy of effort and wealth aside, there does seem to be a pretty strong connection between certain careers and wealth. And generally speaking, rich people push their kids toward high-earning careers, while in poor communities there's (*generally*) a whole lot less encouragement to pursue those careers.

Like, in a wealthy community a kid might be encouraged to be a surgeon - and be given the academic and financial tools to pursue that goal - where in a poor community she'd be encouraged to aim for a career as, say, a daycare worker (very important job to society! but not very well paid) (and would not have the tools to become a surgeon).

So *if* frum Jews were more likely to be wealthy than other Americans a generation ago, for whatever reason, that could continue for a long time as wealth -> opportunity -> more wealth.

Scrabble123

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 9:01 am

ora_43 wrote:

Honestly where are you getting statistics that frum Jews are wealthy? I think that most of them would fall into the middle class category, which is not considered wealthy? I'm super confused here. Frankly I try to stay out of these conversations because I think that an income of 1 million a year is upper middle class, but I don't see where someone is taking these statistics from... is it an opinion or what?

clowny

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 10:42 am

amother wrote:

Be careful, u might break the bugaboo in the snow.

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 3:52 pm

amother wrote:

I grew up OOT from NY and now live in NY. The extravagance was worse in Los Angeles than in NY so not sure what you're talking about. I believe it's worse in London as well FME.

I said larger jewish communities. LA and NY are probably two of the most expensive cities in the world. Perhaps it's a big city vs smaller town issue.

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 5:56 pm

amother wrote:

Wow. Reading this thread makes me so very grateful to live in the community that I do. I'm waaay OOT and people are quite modest. We have a mix of very rich down to quite poor and lots of in between. Shul is not a fashion show. Everything is very laid back and people are always passing things down to one another so everyone's got kids in used clothes, etc., or pushing a fancy brand stroller that they got for free or on the cheap. A couple of women are way into fashion so they are wearing the latest styles and brands, but that's their "thing" and no one thinks anything of it or tries to keep up with them.

People also keep simchas and other things pretty simple so it doesn't create high expectations for everyone. And no one feels ashamed to put a call out for help with baking for a simcha if they can't afford the catering.

When we last visited DH's family in LA, all the materialistic conversation about stuff and money and who has what literally made DH and me sick to our stomachs. (Not bashing all of LA here, just commenting on the conversation at my in-laws house and they are all really nice people.). It opened our eyes to how non-materialistic our community is. Which is great - I don't worry that friends are burying themselves in debt just so they can keep up with the Joneses.

LA amother here. It all depends on what shul/community you belong to. LA is so huge there are several dozen different sub communities within walking distance. I was shocked when I went to the east coast...much more there. But that's compared to my daled Amos.

cooksallday

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 6:19 pm

Hi, are you me??? I'm literally in the exact same boat except been married almost 10 months. Def feel for ya. I also get nothing from my parents and feel jealous when my friends get so much from theirs. Obvs everyone has different situations and we have to be thankful for what we have and that we are able to support ourselves! It is hard, I don't know how people do it. Feel free to pm and we can rant more lol

ArganMagic wrote:

amother

Thu, Jan 22 2015, 6:53 pm

ArganMagic wrote:

I just wanna say that it's not how much money you have that decides how much you'll go on vacation. Dh and I have been married 2 1/2 years and we have only gone on vacation, once for half a week plus one other night, another time. We can definitely afford a full out vacation but dh is too frum to go anywhere:( he doesn't look too frum but he acts it and it means he won't go anywhere with me and even going somewhere chol hamoed is a whole convincing situation where he tries getting out of it (and usually succeeds)