how do so many frum people have so much money?

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 9:55 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

But truthfully, who is buying so many carriages in a lifetime? We are four siblings. I am 15 years older than my youngest sibling. My parents still had the first basinet carriage they used for me, up until probably 8 years ago. And it was completely usable.
Why would someone need to get new carriages? I know a family with BAH 7 children, from 11 down to a few months, almost every two years. They still use the same carriage they used in the beginning. I dont know people who are buying new carriages every few years. So, again, I ask, what is the point in buying a more expensive carriage if the less expensive one works as well and you dont need to buy new ones every few years?

Stuff they made in the past held up better, and repairs were easier to come by. I needed a maclaren repaired and I couldn't find anyone willing to do it. So I threw it out and that was that.

Now my double bugaboo is holding up beatifully for the third child. I can steer the whole double thingamajig one handed while holding the phone in my other hand. As far as double strollers go, nothing comes close to the "drive" of a bugaboo, and they all are huge tractors anyway. I don't care about the foldability because I don't have a car.

As far as cars vs strollers, a good double stroller for me is what a car is for many women in other circles. It lets me go places. Just like no one would tell a woman whose husband has a car, and she needs one to get to work "well ride a bike to work", I shouldn't be told "get a graco" when it will severely hamper my ability to go around town.

Dandelion1

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 9:55 am

Sanguine wrote:

Your society doesn't rate a person's value by the items they own and how they paid for it. I (we) don't get jealous and pettily question how they're paying for things . We simply say "Titchadshi"

With all due respect, I'm sure you are not implying that jealousy does not exist in Israel right? Because I have an enormous extended family there, and I can attest that as wonderful as they all are, they experience the same gamut of human emotions that we in America do.

Dandelion1

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:00 am

amother wrote:

So no one went around town before 2003 when bugaboos were first sold?

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:05 am

aleph wrote:

So no one went around town before 2003 when bugaboos were first sold?

That's a wierd question. If an easier option exists nowadays and I decide it's right for me and my family why are you judging my choice?

There are people who will tell me wear a baby carrier, what do you need a double stroller for at all? Ha. I need a triple stroller at this stage but I make it work b"h.

And FTR I know many people who hate leaving their house with more than one child because it is difficult. And I wanted to make sure that the stroller is not a factor in that for me.

ETA: and since the bugaboo double first came out a lot more recently than 2003, I honestly shudder to think how I would manage without it. Hashem sent me the kids close in age just at the right time in stroller evolution history Wink

, as well as a generous family member to sponsor it. (I probably would've bought it myself anyway, just to be clear.)

clowny

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:06 am

Although I do agree that a bugaboo stroller is a good investment and might last a lot longer than, say a Graco stroller but what if you don't have an extra $800 to spend now? Will u buy it anyway? Just because its a good investment. Isn't it financially easier to spend $200 at every second or thrd baby rather than $800 at once? Although in the long run (very long run) you might (only might) end up spending more money.

The way I look at it- how can u spend a lot of money on expensive products when at the same time you struggle financially? Although it will be a good investment. The term "good investment" is when you can afford it. And I'm not gonna go into the fact of when one has debts and at the same time spend money on "good investments". I think it's wrong imo.

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:10 am

clowny wrote:

True. Credit card overuse is a huge problem with this kind of "good investment" thinking.

Dandelion1

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:12 am

"They had the silver cross which was even more expensive. (Ratio...)"

Smile

Lol.... LOL

Not to date myself as a grumpy old lady here, but when my first dc was born 17 years ago, the go to carriage was the Peg Perego Milano. They were $350 which was shocking... we found a last year's model for $250 which was also seemed crazy at the time....

Last edited by Dandelion1 on Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total

Dandelion1

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:15 am

amother wrote:

, as well as a generous family member to sponsor it. (I probably would've bought it myself anyway, just to be clear.)

I'm sorry, my comment was a little snippy... I apologize.

Sanguine

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:22 am

aleph wrote:

I'm saying that the weekly thread on this site where everyone talks about the things other people own and want to know the secrets of collecting from all the gov't agencies and still manage to live like a rich person is making me real sick. Of course people want to own certain things in Israel too but that's not our lives. We'd rather fight about politics, security, religion and the cost of living but we're not always eyeing our neighbors baskets in the supermarket. School is cheap here. Health insurance is cheap. Gas costs a fortune. 80% of your salary goes to pay for groceries. If you have a better job you have more money. If your company gives a car your gas is paid for (that's all my teens want in life). It's simpler here. If you have a bugaboo - You either make more money, got it as a gift, or didn't eat for 2 months. I can get one too, but I'd rather eat.

There's a big difference between wishing that you owned what the neighbors own (even though it's against commandment #10 - Better to break that one than #7 Wink

), than to sit trying to figure out what crooked thing your neighbor did to buy it.

Peanut2

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 11:27 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Wow, Ive only ever heard of the bugaboo here not in my real life community and in some communities in israel where I am not living. I went to do a price check of the two carriages in this post.
I am beyond shocked. Why would any sane person spend near or over 1000 dollars on a carriage? Im sorry, thats insane.
The graco is roughly 3 - 4 hundred dollars.
Im sorry, no matter how smooth sailing it is, you are buying the name, thats it.
Gosh, am I happy I live in a world where those things are not the important thing.

While bugaboos aren't big in the Dati Leumi world you live in, they totally are a thing in Israel in some places. Go to Emek on a Friday morning and see a stroller show.

And even in the shtachim most young couples, especially in the world I know which is either more Anglo or the gush buy good quality strollers. Tons of people I know have higher end double baby joggers, which are really expensive. And these are mostly couples with cars, too. (Which I agree makes a differce. If you live in the suburbs like I do and are just taking your kids in and out of the car at gan, home, the store, you aren't using a stroller as much. Making to walk to gan nearby and on Shabbos. If someone lives in a city with no car it's like a wagon for everything. So I get it. Personally I think that the difference between a bugaboo and a slightly lesser brand, like BJ, isn't the biggest deal over a few kids. It's not as much of a crazy cost as tuition, sheitels, living in expensive Jewish areas, other higher Jewish costs, or keeping up with the Cohens.

Peanut2

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 11:54 am

Sanguine wrote:

), than to sit trying to figure out what crooked thing your neighbor did to buy it.

I adore you, but imamother isn't real life.
And your experience of Israel is just one experience. You find it less gashmi but from what you write you seem very middle class Israeli. Like you said, consumer goods like strollers are cheaper in America, but daily things like tuition, health insurance, and vegetables are cheaper in Israel.
I don't think it's simpler in Israel, sadly. I think you are a happy look at the full cup type of person, and that's the main difference.

Sanguine

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:06 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with owning a Bugaboo if you want one (my baby is 14 yo, so I don't really want one). I pay for grated cheese and sliced bread cause I want that (if you don't live in Israel you won't understand that). But this Bugaboo discussion comes up weekly when people try to figure out where their neighbor gets their money from. It's not a normal way to live. On LII (Life In Israel) people ask for tips in surviving. "How do I manage", not "How does he survive?"

It's not the Bugaboo. It's the lifestyle. But I checked the Chabad website:

Quote:

10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maid-servant, his ox, his ***, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

Doesn't mention a Bugaboo so you're all safe

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:14 pm

KollelWife3 wrote:

It's definitely cheaper than having a car!! Why isn't a "societal problem" when a family needs two cars???

Not a societal problem. It means you live in town. We live out of town and we have two cars. We need them. The closest grocery is 15 walk but they don't have kosher meat. That one is 45 minute walk. The kosher butcher is 50. My dh's school is 1 hour drive away. I work 30 min drive away in the opposite direction. My daycare is a 30 min walk also. Living out of town requires min of one car. Those that have one car can't do carpool and have to send their kids on public transportation which is late and unreliable here. But, one of ours is from the late '90s and the other from the early 00's.

Sanguine

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:21 pm

Whoops - was posting while you were too. So my post has nothing to do with yours. But I do think there's a difference. Tuition isn't an issue but I agree that life is more expensive in Israel (on many things), but I don't think people in Israel (I'm not talking about your secular Tel Avivi), are so jealous of their neighbors and trying to figure out how they do it. I know my neighbor has a better job so they have a better car. They'll lend it to me if I need it. We went to college so we have decent jobs. We didn't go to graduate school (my neighbor did). That was a decision I made even if I'm paying for it forever. Maybe I did better things with those years. Maybe G-d didn't make me as smart. Maybe my parents brought me a Bugaboo from NY. Maybe my children would rather have Saba and Savta at their Gan party than me push an easier carriage...

Everything in life is trade-offs. This petty jealousy is driving me crazy.

how do so many frum people have so much money?

They rob banks and get away with it. What kind of answer are people always looking for?

gp2.0

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:29 pm

Rich or poor, I feel like it's so unclassy to talk about money. Maybe I'm in the minority, but whether it's someone bragging about a new car or someone being jealous about their neighbor's new car, whether it's someone justifying why they spent $1,000 or someone justifying why they would never spend $1,000, I find it to be in such poor (pun intended?) taste. It just seems like a personal thing that shouldn't be up for discussion. I mean obviously here on imamother everything is up for discussion, but that's another topic...speaking of which, I have a great new invention idea if anyone wants to run with it. Bedikah cloth applicators!

amother

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:48 pm

I get that it seems petty to talk about what other ppl have.

But when your sister in law makes a simcha and can't afford it, so the family is asked to give tzedakah for it, it rankles. Especially when its important that it look just so, so no one is ashamed??? And then when her daughter has a baby and buys an expensive carriage, its ANNOYING. Yes, she may have gotten it as gift or saved or whatever. I understand. What I don't understand is why the community and her relatives have sponsored her simchas because she can't afford to make a wedding and then her children use their "own" money for luxuries. I feel like I've been used. I also feel like I ain't chippin' in over there anymore! If you can cough up "gift money" or your own money for the stuff you want, don't you think that they could cough up money for stuff that they don't really want to do?