YT gift for my sons kallah - no money!

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 8:47 pm

Barbara wrote:

Really? You think that's what tzedaka is about?

Over 700,000 children in Israel live below the poverty line. Nearly 2.5 million children in the US are homeless.

But let's focus on important ways to spend limited tzedaka funds. Buying another piece of jewelry for a kallah who already has a ring and pearls and who knows what else.

ETA -- hopefully, this young woman knows that her future in-laws are far from rich. Hopefully, she appreciates what she's received thus far, and understands that getting married is about more than the loot you receive, especially from families with limited resources.

People need to get their priorities straight.

It is not a question of where to allocate finite tzedukah funds. If people couldn't donate to kallahs, they would not in turn donate to homeless children. Giving jewelry has no impact on homeless children. The two are not connected.

There are existing pools of money in certain communities. The community takes care of its own. You would be surprised at the generosity. There are gift certificates available if $200 per person for yom tov outfits. There is money for every other need this Pesach. If you told the donors this program is not available, you would not have this pool of money available for something else. It is better to take the money and feel like everyone else.

Fox

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:14 pm

IMHO, there has to be a middle ground.

There is a long-established minhag that Jewish brides receive gifts of jewelry and expensive silver. The reason is not to turn 18-year-old girls into ravenous beasts, demanding more and more lest they lose an unspoken competition with their friends, or make sure they feel "special" enough.

Rather, it was to provide Jewish women with assets they could sell if necessary in the future. Most of us don't have to look further than a block or two to think of women we know whose jewelry or silver, received when they were young, provided safe passage for their families.

Truthfully, a lot of communities practice some version of this. For example, I know lots of couples who receive stocks as a wedding present. The idea is the same: something that will presumably grow in value and can be liquidated if necessary.

Living in America as part of a community that gives gifts of fine jewelry, it's easy for 18-year-old girls (and their mothers!) to lose sight of the origins and real purpose of this minhag. And if you belong to a community where this minhag is followed, it shouldn't have the Tony Soprano vibe that sometimes seems to accompany it.

I like the idea of some kind of family heirloom, especially a piece of jewelry -- even good-quality costume jewelry. Your son can present it with an explanation of its history and why he considers it an estimable gift.

He can add something to indicate that he is aware of the objective value (or lack thereof), but that this gift has great sentimental value, and he looks forward to presenting her with many gifts reflecting her own taste in years to come.

If the girl is clever, she'll be able to spin a story that will make her friends' more expensive baubles seem crass and vulgar. And if she's not, the OP and her son will be sending an important message that they intend to honor this minhag -- but not at the price of bankrupting anyone.

Sewsew_mom

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:19 pm

amother wrote:

You are 100% WRONG to hold it against your daughter in law for wanting to fit into her community's standards.
Shame on YOU for judging her for this.

If you weren't able to pay for it then yes, get money from tzedaka hachnasas kallah, that is what they are for.

It is wrong to expect your average, young kallah to be a big tzadekes and not get whatever it is that is the norm in your circles. She will likely resent you if you don't. I never heard of Pesach present, but if that's normal you need to find a way to figure it out and don't put the blame on her.

You my friend are a sad sad representative in Judaism. All my friends are buying houses should I steal one? BUT EVERYONE IS BUYING ONE I WANT ONE TOO!!!! Ridiculous. Maybe if they learn when their engaged that no 2 people are alike they wont have such issues with shalom bayis after their married and wont sleep with their friends husbands cus he seemed so much happier on facebook. Your a fool.

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:23 pm

greenfire wrote:

um there are plenty of broken engagements - why would you say halacha forbids it ?

actually that is why presents should not be traded between chosson & kallah until their kiddushin ~ in case they break up

I say it because DH and my rov said it was against halacha. I knew some information and I asked a sheila. I was told I couldn't say anything.

It is one thing for an engagement to break off and it is another thing for a mil to say to dump the girl once they are engaged.

If the chossen and kallah's circles give these gifts before the chassunah, then it is unfair to not do it. In these circles, it is not so common to break up before you get married. It is actually looked further down on than divorce. I never heard of any broken engagements, but I have heard of quite a few extremely short marriages.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:23 pm

I am litfish. I got a fake bracelet for my vort and my DH casually mentioned a few days later its not real. Honestly, I wasnt 19 and I was madly in love with my husband and didn't really care. My in laws are not wealthy but not any poorer than anyone else who gives a bracelet. All of my friends and sisters/in laws got diamond jewelery. My parents still do not know to this day- I saw no point in telling them. My sister in law (husbands brothers wife) was very upset when this happened though. Her family was outraged they felt like the in laws were stingy. I certainly think it was blown out of proportion but I would never do that as a mother in law. You cant be cheap on your kallah! I know my mil is a good person and they are very no frills so they didnt understand this was protocol... I still think they were wrong

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:33 pm

MnM1130 wrote:

This post is ridiculous and illogical.

How did you get to sleeping with your friend's husband and stealing houses from accepting available tzedukah? No one is saying to steal jewelry to make the kallah happy.

Next time you call someone a fool, write "you're a fool" rather than "your a fool" so you don't sound like you are a fool.

Sewsew_mom

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:38 pm

amother wrote:

I dont recall this being a spelling bee. I dont care how its spelled. point is dont just DO cus other pple are doing- rather when it comes from the heart appreciate it and dont EXPECT just cus the neighbors have. I think these giels who get married nowadays dont appreciate anything they get cus their friends are getting more or better. Start appreciating your own life without always looking over your shoulder. and NO tzedaka is NOT made to buy the kallah a hundredth piece of jewelry which she doesnt need..

iluvy

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:50 pm

I'm thinking about this from the kallah's point of view. I got married six years ago, when I was nineteen. I was definitely immature, but I can't imagine someone getting married being immature enough to hold it against their inlaws if they *don't have enough money* to buy her the expected gifts. This is the time to grow up! to realize that you are living your life, and that other people's lives have nothing to do with yours!

"Malky, you know we aren't wealthy, and we aren't able to get as fancy a gift for you as we would have wanted, and as a kallah like you deserves. We want you to know how much we love you, and how excited we are to have you in our family, so we got you this <small>."

It is very easy to show a kallah/daughter-in-law that you value her. You call her. You remember what's going on in her life and ask her about it. You make her favorite foods. You compliment her to her face and behind her back for other people to repeat to her. You don't need to buy her something that your friends and the internet have told you that you are legally obligated to buy.

Of course it's hard for a kallah not to get what all her friends are getting. LIFE IS HARD! She will not be getting everything from her inlaws that her friends with rich inlaws are getting, and I believe she will be mature enough to understand that this is not because her inlaws value her less.

MamaBear

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:54 pm

I've never had the patience to make breakfast for myself. When I was a newlywed and visiting my inlaws, my father in law would make me a special hot breakfast. Right down to sectioning my grapefruit and giving it to me with the cutest spoon.

That's showing love and appreciation. The more people push forward to change these silly expected customs, the more things will change for the better. Honestly, with all the need in my community, I'd rather my money be put to those in serious need, then put aside for my oldest child's future kallah's pesach gift.

Wants vs needs people.

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 10:02 pm

MnM1130 wrote:

Tzedukah is not made. It is donated specifically for this purpose with rabbinical approval.

These kallahs especially those who get from tzedukah appreciate everything they get because for the first time they are getting lovely things. They often come from poor large families and every item is proudly displayed. It is the ones who are used to getting who are jaded. It is not these girls you are writing about.

While this isn't spelling bee, it helps when posters write in English and organize their thoughts.

pause

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 10:12 pm

Your attitude seems to be the problem here, not the lack of money. You sound like you are resentful of the community demands. It doesn't matter who you are, but you need to know where your kallah belongs. If you take a kallah from a community where it is expected to give a gift, you need to somehow do it. By taking a kallah who is different from you, you need to accept that she is coming from a different place than you are, and she has different expectations than you. You need to make her feel accepted in the way that SHE will FEEL accepted. Once she is in the family for a bit, she will get to know you better and be happy with your standards. But at this point, I don't think it's fair for you to say this is who I am, I don't know how to do this stuff. Make it work one way or another. You've gotten some good ideas here. You think a gift is not important; realize that it is.

amother

Wine

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 10:18 pm

amother wrote:

I got "fake" or the cheapest of everything. I knew it wasn't coming from a bad place but much as I hate to admit it I REALLY wanted the nice stuff. I knew they couldn't afford it and told them not to bother with certain things hoping they would spend more on others (said no need for bracelet hoping they'd spend difference on ring or just save the money because I really didn't need the bracelet but they insisted and spent a fraction of what is spent on kallah bracelets for a piece that I was embarrassed to show off as my kallah bracelet because it was more appropriate as a bas mitzvah present). They were particular to give me all the expected gifts but I would have preferred less gifts that were nicer. They were told I need a siddur so they went and got the cheapest small siddur in the store (not as nice as the one I got for my bas mitzvah). I didn't need it and it made me feel weird that they were trying to be "yotzeh". I got a small flawed diamond and a silver plated leichter. Took me shopping for a yichud room present and tried convincing me that a thin chain necklace with a small ball charm (you know like the ones they used to pierce ears with?) was beautiful (maybe for a newborn?) so basically I can see where a kallah would be upset for not getting whats expected in her community and her feelings are very valid but she can't ask for anything different without sounding like an awful person.

(PS I went shopping beforehand to see the prices so I'd know to pick out the cheapest setting for ring. I tried finding another source for buying where I could add money without him knowing but he didn't go for it. I wasn't an entitled brat. Not even close. And I got him all the expensive gifts (even though I'm not rich and did not have my parents covering all of it). It still bothers me that I have a fake leichter (which I can't replace without offending them) but I'm super thrilled I have him. And I don't think I'm awful for wanting what is expected in the community either.)

iluvy

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 10:34 pm

pause wrote:

This is a soon-to-be-married woman we're talking about, and 4-5 figures worth of jewelry. Not buying your eight year old daughter the right backpack that everyone else has.