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etky
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 Tue, Apr 14 2015, 9:40 pm
I remember being served capon back when I was growing up in the States. It tastes slightly different than chicken - a deeper, perhaps richer taste. I've never encountered it in Israel.
My question is: does the non-kosher 'world at large' use these wrong designations (capon, baby chicken) for chicken thigh meat cutlets or is it a peculialarity of the frum world?
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Amarante
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 8:22 am
| etky wrote: | I remember being served capon back when I was growing up in the States. It tastes slightly different than chicken - a deeper, perhaps richer taste. I've never encountered it in Israel.
My question is: does the non-kosher 'world at large' use these wrong designations (capon, baby chicken) for chicken thigh meat cutlets or is it a peculialarity of the frum world? |
For sure, non-kosher chicken doesn't carry these appellations.
I don't think real capon (I.e. castrated male chickens) is even sold anywhere except possibly a very specialized small butcher shop. I don't think large scale poultry farms (kosher or non-kosher) do anything except raise chickens to mature as quickly as possible. They don't even really sell really large roasting chickens anymore as they are just the generic "fryer" size.
As a funny aside, white meat and dark meat were developed as polite ways to call the breast and legs of chickens because it would have been impolite to mention "breast" in any context in polite 19th Century European/American society. I believe that some people went so far as to cover their piano "legs" but that might be a bubbe meiser.
And on the subject of chicken names and Bubbes, as I recall my grandmother called the portion of a chicken which had the thigh and drumstick, the pulka. Was that a common term or something unique to her? Of course I never understood how there could be a chicken pupik and my own pupik since I knew that chickens didn't have umbilical cords so how could they have pupiks? 
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ra_mom
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 9:52 am
| Amarante wrote: | For sure, non-kosher chicken doesn't carry these appellations.
I don't think real capon (I.e. castrated male chickens) is even sold anywhere except possibly a very specialized small butcher shop. I don't think large scale poultry farms (kosher or non-kosher) do anything except raise chickens to mature as quickly as possible. They don't even really sell really large roasting chickens anymore as they are just the generic "fryer" size.
As a funny aside, white meat and dark meat were developed as polite ways to call the breast and legs of chickens because it would have been impolite to mention "breast" in any context in polite 19th Century European/American society. I believe that some people went so far as to cover their piano "legs" but that might be a bubbe meiser.
And on the subject of chicken names and Bubbes, as I recall my grandmother called the portion of a chicken which had the thigh and drumstick, the pulka. Was that a common term or something unique to her? Of course I never understood how there could be a chicken pupik and my own pupik since I knew that chickens didn't have umbilical cords so how could they have pupiks? |
Pulke is the name used for the chicken drumstick though I believe in Yiddish if actually means thigh. Can someone else chime in on this?
Pupik is the term used for the chicken testicles, they are referred to as gizzards elsewhere, and I believe that in Yiddish pupik refers to the actual member. Again, I need someone to confirm that that is what pupik in Yiddish means as I'm a little rusty.
But I too was told that the chicken pupik was the chicken belly button as well. 
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etky
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:11 am
Pupiks are the gizzards of a chicken - a part of their stomach.
However, the non-culinary, informal meaning is belly button. It is still commonly used by Israelis as an alternative to tabur which is the Hebrew word for belly button.
Same goes for pulke which, in culinary terms, refers to the drumstick. Israelis use the term all the time - Sometimes they use it disparagingly, to describe a woman's heavy thighs. It is possible that the original Yiddish word means thighs but I've only ever heard the term used for the drumstick.
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debsey
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:11 am
| ra_mom wrote: | Pulke is the name used for the chicken drumstick though I believe in Yiddish if actually means thigh. Can someone else chime in on this?
Pupik is the term used for the chicken testicles, they are referred to as gizzards elsewhere, and I believe that in Yiddish pupik refers to the actual member. Again, I need someone to confirm that that is what pupik in Yiddish means as I'm a little rusty.
But I too was told that the chicken pupik was the chicken belly button as well. |
My mother always told me that the "pupik" was the belly button. But come to think of it - how big is a chicken's belly button?!
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MagentaYenta
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:27 am
| etky wrote: | I remember being served capon back when I was growing up in the States. It tastes slightly different than chicken - a deeper, perhaps richer taste. I've never encountered it in Israel.
My question is: does the non-kosher 'world at large' use these wrong designations (capon, baby chicken) for chicken thigh meat cutlets or is it a peculialarity of the frum world? |
I think the improper naming is pretty much limited to the kosher world. I can't imagine chain stores getting away with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Notsobusy
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:47 am
| ra_mom wrote: | Pulke is the name used for the chicken drumstick though I believe in Yiddish if actually means thigh. Can someone else chime in on this?
Pupik is the term used for the chicken testicles, they are referred to as gizzards elsewhere, and I believe that in Yiddish pupik refers to the actual member. Again, I need someone to confirm that that is what pupik in Yiddish means as I'm a little rusty.
But I too was told that the chicken pupik was the chicken belly button as well. |
We love pupiks in the chicken soup. My husband, who grew up using pupik as a euphemism for p*nis, cringes every time my kids ask for pupiks. But I can't imagine eating "gizzards", it sounds so much worse to me, so I still use the term pupiks.
We also call the drumstick the pulka, that's how we called it growing up.
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etky
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:51 am
| glutenless wrote: | We love pupiks in the chicken soup. My husband, who grew up using pupik as a euphemism for p*nis, cringes every time my kids ask for pupiks. But I can't imagine eating "gizzards", it sounds so much worse to me, so I still use the term pupiks.
We also call the drumstick the pulka, that's how we called it growing up. |
I thought the word was putz, no?
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Notsobusy
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 10:54 am
| etky wrote: | | I thought the word was putz, no? |
We used putz for loser or shlemazel. Never heard of any other meaning.
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etky
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 11:02 am
| glutenless wrote: | | We used putz for loser or shlemazel. Never heard of any other meaning. |
Sure, it's another way to describe a jerk. But I think that literally it means p*nis.
Come to think of it, there are quite a few derogatory appellations in Yiddish that mean that....
Never heard of pupik as describing any other (human) body part other than belly button though.
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Lilibet
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 11:12 am
| etky wrote: | | Just wondering:are these more or less expensive than chicken breast cutlets? In Israel they are quite expensive - about 50% more than breast meat, which is not cheap either. |
Usually far cheaper than skinless, boneless breasts in the States. However, because of foodie preference for dark meat, skinless, boneless thighs and in the middle of a sharp rise in popularity, and the price is starting to rise.
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etky
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 11:15 am
| Lilibet wrote: | | Usually far cheaper than skinless, boneless breasts in the States. However, because of foodie preference for dark meat, skinless, boneless thighs and in the middle of a sharp rise in popularity, and the price is starting to rise. |
So interesting how cultural preferences affect price...
Just shows how little the price has to do with the actual cost of the product.
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ra_mom
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 11:27 am
Etky, I learned something new about gizzards today. Thanks for the info! I searched wiki and I'm glad to know we weren't served testicles.
Glutenles, my dh also said that pupik is a Yiddish word used for p*nis.
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nylon
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 5:10 pm
I never see it in the non frum world. Even the kosher butchers not too long ago, at least outside Brooklyn. Bottoms and tops seem to be traveling, though if you buy packaged Empire chicken in a regular supermarket, they will call bottoms leg quarters like all the non kosher chicken.
I didn't think you could get a kosher capon because you have to castrate the animal, but I googled, and Park East Kosher gets them seasonally.
I grew up calling the gizzard the pupik and having my grandmother remind me to put it in the soup.
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shanie5
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 5:21 pm
The capon from a catered event is from the large bird called a capon (a rooster with its s@x parts removed). It should be called "capon breast fillets" to be more accurate. A capon is much jucier than a chicken. I think most capons are sold to caterers, but they can definitely be found whole-I made one for pesach seder.
Skinless boneless leg fillets (the 'baby chicken of the thread title) is actually more expensive than the breast fillet. Wholesale, almost $.70 more per lb.
Cornish hens are full grown chickens-not chickens shechted young.
Poultry plants have to order their chickens months in advance. They don't grow them as fast as possible. Most kosher plants dont use chickens that have been given growth hormones.
Chickens weigh between 2 & 5 lbs usually. Most common is around 3.5 lbs.
The designation "fryer" means the chicken is cut into 8 pcs. Broilers means they are cut into 4 pieces. Otherwise, they are the same.
As a side note-chicken testicles are not much bigger than a grain or 2 of cooked rice.
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cbsp
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Wed, Apr 15 2015, 7:56 pm
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A further point of (mostly useless) info, my husband notes that the chickens shechted post Sukkos or Pesach are usually larger because they had extra time to grow. So you might find only 3 bottoms in a package rather than the expected 4 (for those who don't buy whole chickens)...
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Amarante
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 7:13 am
I never heard pupik used for anything other than a bellybutton - chicken or human. And certainly not for a male organ. My Bubbe would remark about women wearing particularly short mini skirts that the skirt was up to their pupik - and I don't think she was thinking about cross dressers. Of course her remark made no sense to me either way because I didn't understand how a skirt could be up to a pupik - and then as a young child, I couldn't picture a chicken in a skirt - long or short. :-)
But definitely the word pupik was not used for a male organ. I always thought the vulgar Yiddish word for that was schmuck although now most people think it means jerk or idiot - especially non-Yiddish speakers. But growing up, it was not a word that was used by my family as it wasn't a *polite* word. Maybe my father and Zeide might use it but not in the presence of women or children certainly.
Anyway, here's a bit of interesting background on the word - Has anyone else read Leo Rosten's Joy of Yiddish. It's probably a bit dated but I remember really enjoying it when I read it some years ago.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)
Schmuck or shmuck in American English is a pejorative meaning one who is stupid or foolish; or an obnoxious, contemptible or detestable person. The word entered English from Yiddish (שמאָק, shmok), where it has similar pejorative meanings, but its original meaning in Yiddish is p*enis.[1][2] Because of its vulgarity,[3] the word is euphemized as schmoe, which was the source of Al Capp's cartoon strip creature the shmoo.[4] Variants include schmo and shmo.
In Jewish homes, the word was "regarded as so vulgar as to be taboo."[5] Lenny Bruce, a Jewish standup comedian, wrote that the use of the word during his performances in 1962 led to his arrest on the West Coast "by a Yiddish undercover agent who had been placed in the club several nights running to determine if [his] use of Yiddish terms was a cover for profanity."[6]
The German word Schmuck means "jewelry, adornment".[7] The etymology of the pejorative meaning is a matter of some disagreement.
According to the lexicographer Michael Wex, the author of How to Be a Mentsh (And Not a Shmuck), the Yiddish and German "schmucks" are completely unrelated. "Basically, the Yiddish word comes out of baby talk," Wex said. "A little boy’s p*enis is a shtekl, a 'little stick.' Shtekl became shmeckle, in a kind of baby-rhyming thing, and shmeckle became shmuck. Shmeckle is prepubescent and not a dirty word, but shmuck, the non-diminutive, became obscene."[8]
However, according to Leo Rosten in "Horray for Yiddish!" the pejorative German "schmuck" would be Schmock, closer to the original Yiddish word. The transition of the word from meaning "jewel" to meaning "p*enis" is related to the description of a man's genitals as "the family jewels."[9]
The Online Etymology Dictionary derives it from Eastern Yiddish shmok, literally "p*enis," from Old Polish smok, "grass snake, dragon,"[10] but Leo Rosten cites Dr. Shlomo Noble of the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research as saying that shmok derives from shmuck and not the other way around.
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imasoftov
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 7:30 am
| nylon wrote: | | Bottoms and tops seem to be traveling ... |
Why did the bottom and top cross the road?
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OOTBubby
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 7:59 am
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Am I the only one who has grown up with gizzards called giblets? Is giblet an English word? Is it really the same as gizzard? I really have no idea; but I always thought they were the same.
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Amarante
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 8:05 am
| OOTBubby wrote: | | Am I the only one who has grown up with gizzards called giblets? Is giblet an English word? Is it really the same as gizzard? I really have no idea; but I always thought they were the same. |
That is the English/Goyeshe term. When I look at recipes in the USA for Thanksgiving, they have giblet gravy. I am sure many Jewish women (or men) make gravy with the gizzards or pupiks, but they don't call it giblet gravy in my experience. I only see the term in cookbooks or cooking magazines.
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