Another chillul hashem

PinkFridge

Fri, May 15 2015, 12:12 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

As we don't have an actual person's name I don't think it is L"H. In any case the discussion can be about a generality.

If one is a landlord then know this type of action is illegal, or at least immoral and don't engage. But also be wary of the tenants and plan accordingly.

It may not be loshon hara but spreading negative stereotypes is rechilus.

marina

Fri, May 15 2015, 1:27 pm

staten islander wrote:

We own a building, a small one,in a predominantly black neighborhood that is slowly being gentrified. I am stating facts- we had a lot of problems wit our original black tents.Robberies by tenants,shootouts,non payments of rent ,etc. It was a very difficult experience that drained us financially.We had tenants cut copper piping, steal air conditioning units,etc.Now that the neighborhood has improved, the original tenants have moved out and we have white tenants.They tell us that they don't want black ppl in the building.

I don't get it. If you are going to be a landlord and you are specifically buying a building in a low-income neighborhood, why on earth are you surprised about having these problems with low-income populations? It's like a policeman saying: OMG! I have to deal with criminals????

And who cares if the white tenants are bigots? Why don't you do a credit check on new black tenants? Find out if they have jobs, debts, criminal records, credit score, etc. Why base it on race?

I really don't get it.

marina

Fri, May 15 2015, 1:28 pm

zohar wrote:

Have you never heard horror stories about tenants? I'll tell you one. Chassidish buys run down, neglected building with many violations and tries to fix It up. The tenants constantly are destroying the building and calling the city to report the violations. Within a few months he gets listed by the city as one of the top worst landlords without giving him a chance to fix the problems. An investor of his sees the list and backs out of a pending deal. His reputation is now ruined.

So write a sad story article for a paper. This article is about a guy who can afford to pay individual families 10-30 K to move. I'm not so worried about his parnassah. More worried about his morality.

marina

Fri, May 15 2015, 1:33 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I'm going to confess that I haven't read the article, and just skimmed the posts here. I'm not asking anyone to do my HW for me but have one question for you, Marina: this sounds awful. My goal and life game plan is that all my actions should make the Shem Shamayim beloved among His creations. Bottom line: what do you want any of to do based on this? Write letters? Picket? Concentrate on making an effort to make a Kiddush Hashem in our daily actions? What?

There should be more of an awareness of (1) racism in our communities; (2) how such racism affects our interactions with outsiders; and (3) how one person can ruin it for a lot of others.

Additionally, people should discuss the ethics of justifying bad behavior by saying that they need it for parnassa or moving up in the world or whatever. I mean, we'd all be horrified if I slept with my boss just because I need to move ahead in my career. Why is it okay for this person to behave badly just because he wants to make more money?

I don't think we need to picket or write letters or anything. Maybe just be aware. When a gentile says something anti-semitic, maybe our first thought should not be "eisav soneh es yaakov," but rather " I wonder what negative experiences this person had with Jews. "

marina

Fri, May 15 2015, 1:36 pm

Mevater wrote:

This is a story without facts.

Just thinking how a magazine like the New York Magazine which I thought had a more polished educated (and therefore more scrutinizing) audience, would have interest in a story with no names and no court cases cited.

Looks like NY Mag is appealing to what they feel is a new audience. IDIOTS.

(almost) Everyone is dumbing down. (almost) Everyone is loving cheap gossip.

There are shady people of all religions and no religions. So what else is new?

One vote here for calling the New York Mag, the New York Rag.

So help me out here. Are you also offended when papers print upsetting stories about other groups of people? Or only Chassidic Jews?

PinkFridge

Fri, May 15 2015, 3:19 pm

marina wrote:

OK. I hear this.
Sometimes when I start a thread I feel a responsibility to be threadmom to be sure I haven't created a monster. Gut Shabbos. I think I sat long enough even though my legs still hurt. OK, back on my head ;-)

staten islander

Sun, May 17 2015, 9:35 am

[b]I don't get it. If you are going to be a landlord and you are specifically buying a building in a low-income neighborhood, why on earth are you surprised about having these problems with low-income populations? It's like a policeman saying: OMG! I have to deal with criminals????

And who cares if the white tenants are bigots? Why don't you do a credit check on new black tenants? Find out if they have jobs, debts, criminal records, credit score, etc. Why base it on race?

I really don't get it.[/b

Marina,have you ever owned real estate? You sound like a novice. Its easy to make judgements when its a hypothetical situation,but since we are living through this,let me tell you that I am not going to risk losing my current tenants who pay rent,don't damage the building,etc.
And not all low income neighborhoods are violent,are you saying all poor ppl are criminals?

HindaRochel

Sun, May 17 2015, 11:21 am

Quote:

staten islander wrote:
We own a building, a small one,in a predominantly black neighborhood that is slowly being gentrified. I am stating facts- we had a lot of problems wit our original black tents.Robberies by tenants,shootouts,non payments of rent ,etc. It was a very difficult experience that drained us financially.We had tenants cut copper piping, steal air conditioning units,etc.Now that the neighborhood has improved, the original tenants have moved out and we have white tenants.They tell us that they don't want black ppl in the building.

marina wrote:

So low-income people are more likely to rob? Or black low-income people? Kind of don't like making those assumptions either way.

Certain types of thefts might be more likely among lower income people versus other levels, simply because they would have less access to the white collar crimes of middle-upper management.

A poor neighborhood isn't ipso facto a den of iniquity.

It is more likely that impoverished people wouldn't be able to make rent, that is fairly logical.

There is no reason however to suspect that lower income people would want to damage their own property and make life more difficult on themselves. Lack of access to water isn't a minor difficulty.

If the water situation was poor however (water had a bad smell, fear that the pipes were lead or similar, water never got hot enough, water stream was thin), I can see people resorting to destruction in order to get reaction.

HindaRochel

Sun, May 17 2015, 11:23 am

staten islander wrote:

Racism shouldn't be supported. Rent the property in accordance with a specific standard, not the color of the skin, the religion of the potential renters. If they can afford the rent that should be the criterion.

marina

Sun, May 17 2015, 11:24 am

HindaRochel wrote:

Quote:

I hear you on the destruction to get a reaction thing. I think that's true. I also think it's true that low socioeconomic status is associated with a whole host of negative consequences, poor healthcare, higher levles of crime, lower levels of education etc. And of course, I agree that this is not specific to any one race or ethnic group.

HindaRochel

Sun, May 17 2015, 11:29 am

marina wrote:

Poor health I agree. Lack of good education is also true.
In terms of levels of crime, I'm not so certain.
1. White collar crime is viewed as less dangerous so it doesn't receive as much attention unless one is quite high-up (and then everyone wants to pull that person down, especially if that person is female imho).
2. Greater likelihood of obtaining a better lawyer, and getting off with a lesser penalty/community service.
3. Less likely to get caught in the first place as the trail isn't as easy to uncover.

Higher levels of crime or more likely prosecuted? I'm not certain.

marina

Sun, May 17 2015, 11:29 am

staten islander wrote:

Mmmm no I'm not saying all poor people are criminals. Hope you've seen enough of my posts to know that I rarely make such gross generalizations. My point is that the career you chose comes along with the problems you talked about.

But do educate me. Why did you buy a building in a low income place? Did you not know that you would have rent collection problems? Why put yourself in a situation where you feel like you have to choose between acting illegally and losing your investment?

staten islander

Sun, May 17 2015, 8:23 pm

With regard to the pipes, it was not at all a water quality issue,but a black market issue. Copper pipes can be sold for scrap and are often stolen as is any kind of copper wiring.
The reason we bought in an area that's slowly being gentrified is because its a long term investment.We will hopefully sell it when we retire. We are not yet able to afford to buy a similar building in a better neighborhood.
All I am saying is that 99% of the time,the landlord gets blamed for issues that are not necessarily his fault.Are there bad landlords? Absolutely. But its not as clear cut as the article makes it see

Mevater

Sun, May 17 2015, 10:26 pm

marina wrote:

For example, here's a list of slumlords. Many of the names are Hispanic. Are you upset for them? Not so much? http://www.timesnewsweekly.com......html

Any newspaper printing a story about anyone with facts and specific cases, is ok by me.

Marina, going off on a tangent, just curious how you feel about this article:

http://nypost.com/2015/05/17/a.....nkle/

She learned at the feet of a master.
Shakedown artist Al Sharpton’s eldest child wants $5 million from city taxpayers after she fell in the street and sprained her ankle, court records show.

I dont feel all that comfortable calling Al Sharpton a "Shakedown artist". Its name-calling with no specifics. Wheres da beef, nypost?

marina

Sun, May 17 2015, 10:52 pm

Mevater wrote:

I'm fine with it. Al Sharpton is a drama queen and often exacerbates situations instead of solving them. He deserves whatever the media gives out. And 5 million that's just trying to get a settlement and basically legalized blackmail- which I hate.

ora_43

Thu, May 21 2015, 11:11 am

marina wrote:

But do educate me. Why did you buy a building in a low income place? Did you not know that you would have rent collection problems? Why put yourself in a situation where you feel like you have to choose between acting illegally and losing your investment?

I don't know statenislander's story, but where I live, I see that there are usually a couple reasons people invest here:
- main reason: because they can afford to. Rich people can invest in apartments in nice neighborhoods. Middle class people can invest in poor neighborhoods. For a lot of people this is their dream - owning a second apartment is their chance to help pay for their kids' weddings, or have decent savings for retirement, or send kids to a private college, etc.

- also important reason: because there's a whole industry pushing that kind of apartment purchase. Real estate dealers are generally willing to swear up and down that it's a great investment, the neighborhood is gentrifying, property values are only going up, etc etc. And hey, a lot of investors really do have a good experience. So someone who's looking to invest will be deliberately encouraged to do so, and might not hear the horror stories of tenants who don't pay (and how hard it is to evict them, etc) even if they do make an effort to do their homework.

ora_43

Thu, May 21 2015, 11:16 am

naomi2 wrote:

what would be his motive for disclosing all his secrets of the trade to a reporter, or anyone-something sounds fishy to me...

I can picture it. He's a young guy. He probably has himself mostly convinced that what he does isn't so bad, because everyone does it, and anyway he's not hurting anybody. And then a friend asks him to give an interview, tells him it'll be totally anonymous - I can see it.

I've actually had people confess similarly shady business activities to me. Sometimes people have an urge to share. (Maybe they want to see if others think it's as shady as they secretly realize it is? I'm not sure.)