20 sickened at kosher dinner.

zaq

Tue, May 19 2015, 10:20 pm

abaker wrote:

That menu sounds gross to me. And I thought if we don't have the mesorah to eat locusts we can't. So they're not kosher for just anyone, right?

So I always understood, which is why I don't understand the whole thing.

zaq

Tue, May 19 2015, 10:26 pm

mommyla wrote:

I will not eat a whole fish that still looks like a fish either. I think that's the crux of the grossness.

I personally consider serving fish on a fish-shaped platter to be in poor taste, as is reconstructing a cooked fish by overlapping cucumber slices to resemble scales and fanned celery stalks to mimic fins. But really all this is grade-A hypocrisy: if you don't flinch at eating an animal's flesh, you shouldn't flinch at facing the reality of what you are eating.

mommyla

Tue, May 19 2015, 10:43 pm

zaq wrote:

True. But I'd rather not have the thing that I'm about to eat looking at me. Call me a hypocrite, but it's a lot easier to eat a hamburger than a fish (or locust, for that matter) that's goggling at you.

Frumdoc

Wed, May 20 2015, 2:54 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

My grandfather was a shochet so brains were on the menu long before we knew about prion diseases in the 50's. But I agree with you Frumdoc, I enjoy lean meat when I eat meat, but my diet isn't meat dependent either.

I got a call from my traveling shochet about 20 years ago, he was going to slaughter a veal calf that was humanely raised and wanted to know if I was interested in some. I had the time and made a drive out to the farm because I have this whole thing about honoring and looking into the eyes of the animal that is going to feed me. When I saw that calf and his mother I said no way. Even if he was raised freely and humanely with his mother I could not take her child.

Prion diseases were first recognised by Hippocrates in the 5th C BCE, although prions were only recognised at th3 infectious agent in 1982. So I wouldn't risk brains. There is a genetic form of CJD that only affects Libyan jews, and for a long time they thought it was from eating sheep's brains at Rosh Hashana, but it has turned out to be a genetic inherited disease. Just FYI.

etky

Wed, May 20 2015, 4:24 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I'm not going to VIN now but these halachic dinners aren't new. I think Ari and Ari (Greenspan and Zivotofsky of Mishpacha fame) have done this in the past.
In deference to any rabbanim involved I won't question the kashrus issues surrounding locusts; this kind of thing must have been hashed out before in other dinners. I will say that since I've heard about veal production, I don't buy it anymore.

Indeed. The minute I saw this thread I opened it to see if the Aris were involved. Happy to see it's not their handiwork.

imasoftov

Wed, May 20 2015, 5:02 am

abaker wrote:

... I thought if we don't have the mesorah to eat locusts we can't. So they're not kosher for just anyone, right?

zaq wrote:

So I always understood, which is why I don't understand the whole thing.

Rabbi Slifkin wrote

According to many authorities in Jewish law, even Ashkenazi Jews can adopt the North African tradition. This is because it is different from a situation such as that which existed with the stork, where certain communities had a tradition that it was a kosher bird, while others had a tradition that it was a non-kosher bird. With locusts, there is no tradition in Ashkenaz against these types of locusts being kosher; Ashkenazim simply lack a tradition either way. Therefore, according to many authorities, such as the late Rabbi Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg, it is possible to rely upon the North African tradition regarding kosher varieties.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com.....-yum/

chani8

Wed, May 20 2015, 6:34 am

I've always been open-minded about trying things. After all, they all just taste like chicken, anyway, right. lol. I imagine if you fry up a locust real well, it'll taste like crunchy chicken skin.

saw50st8

Wed, May 20 2015, 6:56 am

zaq wrote:

I think bugs in general are gross. I don't mind petting or milking or eating a cow. I wouldn't voluntarily touch or eat a bug. Blech.

iluvy

Wed, May 20 2015, 10:15 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

With factory farmed veal a calf is immediately taken from it's mother and put in a crate. It is fed milk replacer rather than milk (which is more valuable) and gets no exercise or contact with the herd or it's mother for the 20 weeks it is allowed to live. The veal calves cannot walk to slaughter since their muscles are not permitted to develop and their bones are too soft to support them.

There are humane farmers who do raise high end market and rest. veal. Calves are kept with their mothers in a herd and feed naturally on their mother until they are weaned and slaughtered. Their meat is much tougher than that of factory farmed veal and not as white since they are not anemic.

I have heard that R' Moshe Feinstein said that white veal was forbidden because of the cruelty.

marina

Wed, May 20 2015, 10:30 am

I don't understand the whole It's-Cultural- Get-Over-It argument. Of course it's cultural. That's how the vast majority of us work. We don't accept polygamy- it's culturally taboo. Americans don't eat puppies- it's culturally unacceptable. We don't hit our wives- it's culturally unacceptable.

PinkFridge

Wed, May 20 2015, 11:41 am

marina wrote:

You really would compare eating locusts to spousal abuse?

And Imasoftov, thank for the link to the teshuva. Curious as I may be about the locust issue, I have no reason not be dlkz those who were there and you provided us ample cause to do so.

nylon

Wed, May 20 2015, 11:47 am

The problem with not eating veal is that the calves will die anyway. Veal comes from surplus male dairy calves.

Use of veal crates is separate from whether or not you slaughter the calf pre-weaning, though.

marina

Wed, May 20 2015, 11:57 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I'm only comparing as to things we don't do anymore be cause society doesn't approve. Obviously they don't compare otherwise

PinkFridge

Wed, May 20 2015, 12:22 pm

marina wrote:

I'm only comparing as to things we don't do anymore be cause society doesn't approve. Obviously they don't compare otherwise

I get it. Generally though, in the context, people would be assumed to be making equivalent comparisons. As in, You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Jim/Slim.

happybeingamom

Wed, May 20 2015, 12:37 pm

nylon wrote:

The problem is that these calves because of the way they are raised they are unhealthy and this is a problem with treyfus. It is a kashrus problem for some. My DH does not let me buy veal because of the treyfus issue.

MagentaYenta

Wed, May 20 2015, 1:26 pm

nylon wrote:

Overproduction is a major problem in factory farming be it male or female cattle. Bob veal is a way factory farms use early slaughter males calves (30 days and under). It puts the milk cow back into the herd and earning her living quickly.

ETA: I'd probably eat a locust if it was an issue of survival.

Last edited by MagentaYenta on Wed, May 20 2015, 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mama Bear

Wed, May 20 2015, 2:59 pm

Hmmm. Indeed, the 2 satmar butchers have stopped bringing in veal and I can only find it at Meal Mart, in very small quantities. I still buy veal only 2-3X a year, for yomtov - the calf has been slaughtered already anyway, so why shouldnt I buy it - but at least now I know what the issues are.