Have you ever lent out money?

33055

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 10:28 am

amother wrote:

Someone who borrows money does it because he's in need - even if you see him living a high lifestyle - so when borrowing and the person doesn't pay back it says you should go to the other side of the street not to cause him shame. If Hashem gave you and you can afford to help people feel lucky

This is a very unfair approach. Not everyone who borrows money does it because they need something. They may just want something.

Also not everyone who lends money can afford to lose the money they lent. Why do BDs enforce promises to pay back money of those that lend and don't get paid back are lucky?

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 10:38 am

Twice I lent money to siblings who were buying homes, and it was cool to see my Chasunah money recycled twice to help my siblings. Each time, it was with a shtar (written agreement) and my siblings paid me back according to the agreed upon timeline, with no effort on my part.

I would only lend money that I do not need in the short term, and only to people I trust, and only with a shtar according to Halacha.

I also cosigned on my younger sister's first car loan - which she paid back in six months. I would only cosign an amount that I could afford in extenuating circumstances, and for someone I trust to repay that loan.

The mitzvah to loan money is a great Chessed - Im Kessef Tilveh Es Ami. For now, DH and I put some money into a Gmach that we trust, and it is lent out to people who need it. We can take it out if we need it. This way, the loan money is available but we don't have to worry about the details.

amother

Coral

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

Here's a story.
Man asks friend to borrow ten grand for a down payment towards a house. Friend says no because he's saving up to buy a house of his own. Several hours later, friend heads that man who asked to borrow is taking his family to Israel for a vacation. There's ten thousand dollars right there that this poor "man in need" could use for his down payment.

imasoftov

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:04 am

Squishy wrote:

Also not everyone who lends money can afford to lose the money they lent. Why do BDs enforce promises to pay back money of those that lend and don't get paid back are lucky?

Even if a court has the power to compel repayment, if the borrower doesn't have the money, you can frame the ruling and hang it on the wall.

SRS

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 10:38 am

I don't know how the average person has the ability to actual check out the ability for someone to repay a loan. I guess I can pay to run credit checks like other businesses and I imagine I could file the loan in case of a bankruptcy. Don't get me wrong. I believe in this great mitzvah, but I don't think we have any internal bureaucracy to guarantee that we won't be left holding the bag outside of the civil court system, for which my neighbors are suing a family that has borrowed all over, yet how were they to know when making a loan.

I think that gemachs are theoretically better equipped to make the loans than individuals and if I want, I can participate through the Hebrew Free Loan Society. I'm happy to hand a friend some money or gift money, but I'm appalled when I see people dipping into their own home equity lines to gives loans to people in large 5 and 6 figure amounts that have no business doing so.

33055

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 11:09 am

imasoftov wrote:

Even if a court has the power to compel repayment, if the borrower doesn't have the money, you can frame the ruling and hang it on the wall.

I was responding to the poster who said those that lend money and don't get paid back are lucky they had money to lend in the first place. That attitude is sickening. Many people borrow money to lend because loanng money is a mitzvah. Many people borrow with no intention to pay it back and continue to live the high life. They should be ashamed of themselves instead of saying the person they got the better of is lucky.

The answer to your question is that while many people may not have the complete amount to pay back, with a civil judgement you can do income executions and the like and get paid back part at a time.

With a BD judgement you can go to a from employer and get the total amount due the employee for instance.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 11:39 am

amother wrote:

You know, Not all people who loan have that extra amount of money. Dh was once ob thw subway on his way to work. He met this Israeli guy and he asked him for money. Not too much. Around $300. He seemed legit and very desperate. Dh left the station, gave him all the money in our bank account (around $300) and got to work late. As soon as dh came home and told me about it I told him I don't think we will every see that money again but I'm glad you did it. Because if it's true that he was desperate I wouldn't have waned dh ti be so cold and not help out. It's been over 4 years. We called. We haven't seen the money. Money was very tight then but I really think saying no wasn't an option.

We just loaned all of our savings to my sister and bil to put down a down payment on their house. We really jumped on this one. If chv something happens, We do nut have what to fall back on but We know family will be there. We live in a rental the same size as they just bought. We can't afford stuff they do. And no we are not rich. So sometimes, when someone is in need you help out, doesn't mean you can afford it ajd not posting back can put that person who just helped you into debt and crisis. And ruin credit they really worked hard on building.

I didn't answer the pole. We have left money many times. Most if the time we get it back. Sometimes not. But when a person comes to us in need of help, I'd rather take that leap of faith than be cold harded. (Of course w a contract only. Even for siblings and dhs bff)

Please excuse the typo errors. Typing from a phone Swype keyboard.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 12:30 pm

We've lent money a few times, and have always been payed back besides for once.

We lent money ($6,000) to friends of ours (Me and the other wife were friends, and our husbands became friends through us). The wife is the living under a rock type and had no idea that her husband could not afford her extravagant lifestyle anymore and was borrowing money to pay for it. DH and him set up a reasonable payment plan where he would transfer money into DH's account every month. He paid back the first month and canceled the next payment. DH had to chase him down. After repeated ignored phone calls and texts he finally said I'll get you your next payment at this and this time. This cycle continued for months. We probably got paid back about 1500 of the 6000.

DH is a big baal chessed an if the guy would've told him, "I'm so sorry, but I can't afford to pay you back now, can I have an extension" DH absolutely would've forgiven him the money. But he was so not mentchlech about it, pushing of DH and making DH chase him for money that he may not have intended to ever pay back.

Yes, the guy may have been in a rut when he borrowed the money but he got a good job after. Yes it is possible that there were other people he borrowed money from that he felt were more of a priority to pay back, but he shouldve been honest.

The point about crossing the street so as not to shame the other person...The wife (remember she has no idea that her husband owes us money) has repeatedly sent me invitations for shabbos or birthday parties for her kids. I've made up an excuse every time. I wish I could say that I don't go so as not to cause the husband shame, but it's really because it makes me angry to attend a child's birthday party that costed $1,000 which I kind of feel like I paid for!

mirror

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 12:57 pm

amother wrote:

What if the money was to support his 6 kids in Kollel, and he needed to give each one $1,000 a month? Is that considered extravagant?

SRS

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 5:12 pm

Poster with the friend who has no idea the husband is borrowing to support the extravagance, I really think you need to break the bad news to her about her lifestyle. Ignorance isn't bliss. Her husband could end up in a lot of hot water trying to put on a front. Accept her invites and then lay out on the table that there is problem, that you are our $4500, and that they need to get it together. Bring them a few Dave Ramsey books as a gift for their hospitality.

33055

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 5:38 pm

SRS wrote:

This makes sense but AYLOR if you can do it. Mind doesn't let us speak badly about one spouse to another.

I don't consider it borrowing when there is no means to pay back money. Borrowing is when you intend to pay back.

tigerwife

Thu, Jul 23 2015, 6:08 pm

Squishy wrote:

I don't consider it borrowing when there is no means to pay back money. Borrowing is when you intend to pay back.

This.

There is lending, and then there is giving charity.

It hurts more to ask for a donation but you need to be really honest with yourself to see if there is a possibility of paying back.

I would rather give a knowing donation than chase someone to repay a loan.

SRS

Fri, Jul 24 2015, 10:53 am

Squishy wrote:

Definitely AYLOR. If you speak to her you speak to THEM. You bring the check, you bring copies of the payments on the loan and you express to THEM the need to make good on the loan. You don't speak about him to her. You speak about the loan to THEM.

I am fairly certain that it is more than allowed based on my own conversations with Rabbonim. But everyone should do their own homework. What is not right is that ppl go about borrowing and when they burn one, they walk next door and burn the neighbor.

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Jul 24 2015, 11:16 am

amother wrote:

Are you sure you know the whole story here? For example, money is very tight for us but we're taking our kids to Florida for a week. The tickets are from miles earned by spending money on credit card (though no carrying balances!), and we're staying with family. So though people may think we're taking a very expensive trip in reality it's costing us only a few hundred dollars. (Rental car and visiting zoo, aquarium etc...)