Anyone happier in public school? (you can go amother)

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 5:43 am

OP, is the problem all day schools, or just the one that your children attend? You say that your ffb friends don't seem very well educated. Did they all go to the same type of school?

I never went to public school, so feel free to dismiss my observation, but I think that the holistic experience of Jewish education has great value. Having all your studying and your peers in one place is a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Some kids are better off in public schools, but they pay a high price, socially and religiously.

ana21m

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 6:54 am

My inlaws live in great neck and the public school is ond of the best. She telk a me tons of Jewish people send there. Boys there even wear the kippa and sissit as well. I don't blame people for wanting to send to public school the education is much better and of course is FREE. Especially if you own a house and you already paying a lot of taxes for the school system. Tuition for yeshiva could be a fortune if you have a lot of children.

ana21m

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 6:54 am

5mom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 7:22 am

ana21m wrote:

Families who live in Great Neck can afford to live in Great Neck. So what message do they send to their kids when they won't pay for yeshiva because it's too expensive?

Teenagers are equipped with a very sensitive hypocrisy radar. They understand very well what their parents see as priorities. Money, getting into an ivy league college, whatever. If the kids adopt these same priorities, who is going to be surprised? (I suppose the lucky parents are the ones with rebellious kids. They may choose to be frum, though almost certainly not in the same way as the parents.)

saw50st8

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 7:26 am

OP, in my community, the kids who tend to go to public school are the ones who need services that can't truly be provided by the yeshivas. The yeshivas are very good schools though and academically strong.

If you look into a town like Tenafly, NJ, there are a lot of Jewish kids (mainly, but not exclusively, Israelis) in the public school. The education is top notch. It's an expensive school district to live in, but if you are planning to utilize the public school system, it's worth it.

What amother mentioned - the only Jewish kid I know in public high school davens every morning. But it's true about the Judaic studies - they have less time to devote because they have a full public school schedule. Individual tutoring can be done faster so you can cover quite a bit of material, but it's definitely harder as they get older to carve out time.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 8:19 am

amother wrote:

I'm offering a different perspective here.

I actually tutor a few kids in "kodesh" whose parents have pulled them out of the local jewish schools and transferred them to excellent non jewish schools.
These are middle and high school students so obviously different than an younger child.
The parents wanted them to have opportunities they didn't feel were abailable in the jewish schools in terms of sports and art and drama etc... And also felt that academically (particularly in the sciences) they would be better off.
And all of that is true.
However, these kids no longer daven every morning. There parents expect them to do it on the bus or wake up earlier. But they are teenagers and it's not happening.
They have a ton of homework and extra commitments as all high schoolers have and so they first thing that's drops is our after school lessons.
So they learn maybe 1/10 of "kodesh subjects" as they did before. Their own personal observances are dropping. I don't want to give specific examples. And these kids are still observant but things like waiting after meat. Or the way they dress or even things like davening etc... Are all slowly falling away
The parents are very happy with their decision, and again it's a matter of priorities in terms of parenting.
We can never give our children everything.

Just another persepctive.

Oh and I don't judge the parents. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, especially for one of their children. But I respect them for really trying to do what they believe is best.

Anon because people know me and I don't feel comfortable talking about my students like this.

But this is happening with hundreds and hundreds of kids *in* the yeshiva and day school system as well.

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 8:26 am

amother wrote:

But this is happening with hundreds and hundreds of kids *in* the yeshiva and day school system as well.

I don't know the numbers, but a child who has a healthy day school experience will still have the benefit of religious peers and role models. He may return to observance after the rebellious teenage and young adult years, because at least he has a community to go back to. It's a lot harder for public school kids. They have to start from scratch.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 8:54 am

amother wrote:

I don't know the numbers, but a child who has a healthy day school experience will still have the benefit of religious peers and role models.

But that's the point. Many hundreds are leaving observance whether formally or informally, in whole or in part, precisely because they did not have healthy yeshiva or day school experiences or healthy religious role models. There is enough wrong in the system to make the decision not a no brainer and our frequent unwillingness to confront that only compounds the problem.

Chayalle

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

I'm not so sure higher taxes means a better school system. I live in passaic w insanely high taxes and I do not think the public schools here are good.

Ditto for Lakewood - taxes are high and rising, but the public school system is not good. My non-Jewish coworker told me she was privately schooled growing up in Lakewood, because her parents wouldn't send her to the ps here.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:07 am

It's really silly to look at this as a yeshiva vs public school dichotomy. Does no one follow elections anymore? There are some MAJOR problems with public schools in this country, and no easy solutions (if it were that easy, politicians wouldn't have to argue about what to do about it). If I weren't Jewish or frum, I would NOT send to public school unless I lived in a TOP district. If your kids are attending a lousy school, then definitely change, to whatever other option works best. FTR, I am fortunate to live somewhere with a choice of excellent yeshivas (both kodesh and secular subjects and several have the right resources to teach kids with IEPs). I know many yeshivas are lousy. But just be aware that public school isn't necessarily any better and could be worse. Do your homework before assuming public school is going to solve your problems.

amother

Red

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:39 am

OP here- we don't live in the US (yet).

I need to clarify my statement about the FFB's I know- I just realized there are lots of different FFBs. I was referring to ones my age (late 20s) with an American Beis Yaakov education- and not every single one I've ever met, but most. And even moreso the seminary girls I've met, which tells me they may be learning less than they did 10 years ago. But please correct me if you feel this is inaccurate.

The thing with public schools is that they're pretty easy to research- there are national rankings every year, etc. And there are lists where they rank the best schools within the most affordable areas.

My kids are young and are 'normal' but I know that one of them would get toasted by the system here where I live because they often don't follow directions exactly or right away, and the other is just so intelligent that I want to make sure they are not given a sub-par education in early childhood.

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 12:15 pm

amother wrote:

There are some very good MO schools out there. I don't know of a formal ranking, but talk to parents and graduates. I can't see going to public school without a compelling reason.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 1:18 pm

amother wrote:

There are some very good MO schools out there. I don't know of a formal ranking, but talk to parents and graduates. I can't see going to public school without a compelling reason.

The cost of excellent MO schools is quite high because they are comparable to excellent public or secular private schools.

While tuition (or amount spent per pupil in a public school system through taxes) isn't an absolute guarantee of excellence, there is a pretty strong correlation especially if the school is in a community consisting of well educated parents who place a strong premium on quality education.

Good schools cost a lot of money - highly trained professional teachers are costly; labs for sciences are expensive; having courses in different areas is expensive; having counselors and support staff is expensive.

Even in public school systems in metropolitan areas like Los Angeles or New York City, there are excellent public schools and these generally correlate to neighborhoods in which the parents are relatively affluent; educated and very involved in the neighborhood school. Many of secular parents in metropolitan areas use public schools - they select a neighborhood with a good elementary school or use a charter school in the area and then are able to get into a specialized high school. And even some of the larger public high schools have tracking for high achieving students which provide what most people would consider to be an excellent education.

As someone who has friends and family members who work in the New York City school system, I really don't believe that there are large numbers of teachers who scream and abuse their students. There are terrible schools in NY or other large cities (or anywhere really) that fail their students because the problems are insurmountable in terms of what the schools are expected to solve. However, a parent who devotes energy and intelligence to finding a good school within the system will find one - Hashem helps those who help themselves.

BrachaBatya

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:48 pm

anotherima wrote:

Why would I shun someone for sending their child to public school? People really would shun someone for that?

Agreed! SHUNNING someone for making a personal choice for their family? I could see shunning a murderer, a rapist, a criminal....but SHUNNING someone for making a choice regarding schooling for their own children? What the heck kind of person would do that?!!?!!

amother

Wheat

Wed, Aug 26 2015, 12:04 am

amother wrote:

The OP said she was looking for better quality. She didn't say anything about the expense of a yeshiva education. Maybe she can afford a good MO school, and that could give her kids a solid education in a Jewish setting.