Touro or Stern instead of sem

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Emerald

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 12:31 am

You wrote that you are a mainstream Chabad family but it's seems as if your daughters education hasn't been. From what you wrote it seems like she was homeschooled for elementary school and then dormed at a bais yakov style (right wing chariedi?) school for high school. So in my experience kids whose family and education were on different pages often choose a different path from either.

I really think you need to embrace your daughter flaws and all and work to bring out her unique talents to serve Hashem.

The seminary in Pittsburg sounds like a great option. But I can tell you that unlocked smartphones and mall trips is more than acceptable. And she may not wear stockings but that's not the ikar in yiddishkeit. Hopefully she will forge her own meaningful connection to hashem and grow from there.

Again, she is basically an adult and needs to be treated as such.

amother

Red

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 1:02 am

Emerald....you nailed it. Yes, we are Chabad, but didn't want to send her away. When I say mainstream, I mean she has only gone to Chabad shuls, camps (not sleep away), been a counselor at, taught shabbes groups at shul. But there was no Chabad school here. She lived at home when she was at BY for 3 years. Most Chabad girls go to this BY but last year she was the only one left. And yes, due to her education she really doesn't see herself as Chabad stam. She was so unhappy (she hid it well until last year) at BY that we just sent her away this year to a much more "open" school with wider range of girls. We knew there was some risk to this, but a bigger risk was to keep her at BY and we were told by more than one rav to send her away...anywhere really. I figure Pittsburgh will allow her artistry to flourish and she can finally learn the chassidus that inspires her parents. After that, I think she will have what to plan her path with. I will love her no matter what, of course:)

amother

Pink

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 1:39 am

There is an amazing seminary I know that might be a really good fit for your daughter. Have you looked into Pninim? The girls are a mix, from girls like your daughter who 'toe the line' to really solid OOT girls. The lessons are so amazing and inspiring and many are actually based on chassidus..

It's ALL about self-discovery, self-growth, and entirely hashkafa based, the whole point being to make Yiddishkeit alive for you, and discovering yourself through your avodas Hashem. The teachers are really warm, caring and will go all out to help your daughter with everything and anything she needs to grow. They work with every girl, and because they deal with girls like your daughter, have implemented a very good system to ensure girls don't party or worse, while still respecting them and their boundaries.

I have a lot of friends that went there, and I watched them literally change. Girls who before didn't find meaning in Yiddishkeit, barely toed the line, hated the restrictions... Some of them are kollel wives now, they are all so solid, strong and happy in their Yiddishkeit. If you're worried about the Ben Yehuda scene... One friend told me, "After Sukkos, I didn't even think once, 'Should I go to town...'. The classes fill you up with so much real satisfaction, you don't want to ruin it with cheap fun..."

Teachers include Rabbi Wenglin, who went to Harvard, became a baal teshuva through chassidus and is brilliant and a world wide speaker; Rabbi Kahane who also teaches in Aish and gives such fantastic lessons, many based on Reb Tzaddok, Rabbi Heller who gives breathtaking lessons and is the epitome of a mentch...

Please PM me if you want more information. I can get you in touch with girls who went there and really blossomed and grew... It is a place that really works miracles for girls. I have a really close friend whose high school teachers could not believe what a mevakeshes she had developed into... and many more who made real, solid, lasting growth.

(Sorry if this sounds like an ad... I've just seen so many of my friends become such amazing people in Pninim, have listened to some of their classes and seen the sem in action, and was blown away by it...)

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jan 24 2017, 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

professor

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 7:46 am

mha3484 wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by more modern so this might be off target completely. But maybe she would she be interested in a regular college that has a large concentration of religious students such as Maryland, Columbia, Penn? The students have shiurim, make shabbos meals for each other etc.

These are all campuses that have a Rabbi and an MO presence. https://jliconline.org/

I like this idea. if she is the type who falls for peer pressure, she will learn how stupid it is in a completely non jewish ènviorment. thats where all frum girls will stick together, go to the kosher places, find shiurim... I thing she will actually grow in yiddishkit this way

courage2218

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 9:14 am

I am not sure Pninim exists anymore in light of the seminary scandal.

fluffernutter

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 9:21 am

courage2218 wrote:

I am not sure Pninim exists anymore in light of the seminary scandal.

It officially "closed" but all the teachers and staff are now teaching in the new seminary Neimos (I think thats what its called) Basically, they closed and reopened as Neimos - hoping to re-brand themselves. I hope they make it - its such a great place!

DrMom

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 10:38 am

professor wrote:

???

b from nj

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 12:33 pm

DrMom wrote:

???

Exactly, there is no guarantee that her daughter will gravitate towards all the good frum girls in secular college & see the foolishness of the secular life. In fact, the opposite can easily happen in that environment.

amother

Red

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 4:06 pm

I have a son at secular university. We sent him there after he went OTD; he's a good student and involved in campus Chabad, but I can't send a still frum girl to one, If I can help it. I'm very hopeful that Pittsburgh will be a good fit and buy us another year to figure it out. Thank you all so much for such great suggestions.

PinkFridge

Thu, Nov 12 2015, 8:20 am

I'm getting some mixed messages. My gut says that a fully Lubavitch environment is not what she needs, unless her art is so important to her she's willing to compromise.
Based on what you say, I would really consider DB. It sounds like she'll thrive on the academics. Shira Smiles is a teacher there - you can hear her on Torahanytime.com. She draws on a huge wellspring of sources, including Chassidus (in the broad sense, not just Chabad.)

Now you mentioned a medical condition, just throwing in that detail towards the end. You might want to contact someone in E"Y as far as continued treatment goes. Is she responsible re any medication, diet, etc.? She needs to own this at this stage in her life.

Sorry to prolong the conversation. It sounds like your mind is made up. I think you should find someone IRL to bounce things off of, not just the formidable collective wisdom of Imamother. I wonder if Rabbi Feigenbaum in Toronto is accessible.

Happy18

Thu, Nov 12 2015, 8:29 am

professor wrote:

I grew up going to coed schools. Want to guess how many of my former classmates who went to secular colleges were frum in college and how many are frum now? I can count on one hand how many I know who stayed frum. This is the worst idea ever. I know plenty of not frum families who sent to stern because they figured their girls were likely to be more influenced to positive behavior if they were surrounded by girls who could be examples.

PinkFridge

Thu, Nov 12 2015, 8:36 am

I just got a hug for my post. I assume it's of the "you're all wet, may the RBSh"O give you clarity soon" variety. Since we're amother here, can the hugger please let me know what I'm missing? I seriously want to know.

amother

Red

Tue, Dec 15 2015, 3:29 pm

I kind of thought I was done with this thread...mind made up. I'm really not willing to gamble on EY at this point because my dd's tznius is pretty bad and she is extremely gorgeous (I'm actually not looking at this as a plus, but part of her nisyon, as she hears this so much). Her boarding "parent" has said she would be worried she'd end up on Ben Yehuda Mall, cv's, so even though the tznius is not strong at the Chabad sem, at least she's close, it's small, and she will have way more supervision. Also, half the cost and I'm so tired of spending a fortune on her so she can just have fun.

naturalmom5

Tue, Dec 15 2015, 5:59 pm

amother wrote:

We are going out to PA on her winter break where she can spend a few days, IY"H.
Raisin.....yes, you are right about the phones etc. in Chabad but she has always (I thought ) identified as Litvish. In her schools those phones and activities were assur. I really think if she actually learned chassidus it would help her find herself (Chabad or not).

Now this is illuminating. Unfortunately, I know many families where children went off totally, because the parents was busy dounbg one from column a , one from column b .
Children, more so in this crazy world than ever before need stability and consistency.
One normal derech. Modern Orthodox or yeshivish or lubavitch not a mix..
That only works in basken Robbins

amother

Red

Tue, Dec 15 2015, 8:47 pm

I can't go back 15 years, and my dh and I had are own struggles coming to frumkeit. We did the best we could. We came to observance in midlife. We are solid now. While I'm sure our lack of clarity played a role, I'm not going to accept that WE are the reason she is doing what she is doing. I think she has a strong yetzer hara and tznius is tznius no matter what normative derech one is on. I know many reasonably tznius non jews even. One thing she always had was a home steeped in love of Hashem, Torah and mitzvos...stam, a stable marriage with good shalom bayis, where I was able to be a full-time mom. Hashem has his reasons and I'm not privy to them. I know plenty of families with a strong, consistent derech where one or two went off. If there was a cookbook, I surely would have used it. My dd is not OTD, she just isn't the eidel maidel she once was.

amother

Aubergine

Wed, Dec 16 2015, 12:36 am

I don't think anyone is blaming you. Just as you needed time to find an appropriate path, so does your daughter. I'm not the child of BT parents, but I've seen that the kids sometimes feel like mom and dad got to see the world and turned out ok, so why do I have to be sheltered? It's a fair question.

You keep coming back to the idea that she is not tzanua. Other than being good looking and not wearing socks, what is she doing? Do you think that the Chabad seminary will help? What's the peer group like? The administration and official position is one thing, the girls are another.

If your daughter is interested in growing and is committed to religious life then I think she ought to be directing the conversation.

amother

Red

Wed, Dec 16 2015, 1:28 am

Well, she is a sweetheart for sure, and I don't know why she is so focused on a certain way of dressing, but she is. She really has no hashkafic connotations to go with it, that she has shared with me when I ask. It's not just no socks, but skirts above the knee, collarbone showing, sometimes elbows. It's causing some problems with where she is boarding at the least. Sem wise, she is not wanting a fifth year of high school (even though she wants a year of fun in EY) and she is very volatile emotionally, so we are very sure she should not be that far away. The Chabad sem is not strong on tznius for sure (but that's already happening anyway), but it is great place to develop her art, which makes her very happy. I think this sem is more focused on pnimus, and taking the focus off the externals may be helpful for her to find where she is really holding. The peer group changes every year and like any sem has stronger and weaker girls, but they all seem to become a tight group (of about 20), and they do have an Israel trip next year. She says she wants to be frum, so I believe her. She is also interested (she says) in learning some chassidus with no tests and pressure. The madrichot next year are returning sem girls from two years ago, and I think that is a good sign.

saramalka

Wed, Dec 16 2015, 3:46 am

I also think a Peninim or Neimos can really be good for a girl like this. My daughter went to Chedvas, but was in the building with the Peninim girls. Some girls in Peninim came in shaky but most came out really strong from Peninim. Many continued on to Chedvas and are really shtark today.
The teachers are really approachable and get close with the girls. I dont think DB is good for a girl like this.

DrMom

Wed, Dec 16 2015, 4:18 am

Perhaps her boundary-pushing w.r.t. tznius is a reaction to your obsession with it.

Raisin

Wed, Dec 16 2015, 5:45 am

I think the chabad sem sounds like a good fit for her.

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