Why are children not welcome at simchas??

Mrs. XYZ

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:31 am

downsyndrome, I def. hear you, but are you talking about immediate family? did you kids not go to your daughters wedding? or even to their aunts/uncle wedding??
I think some of my kids most special memories is from when they spent time together with their cousins and an aunts/uncles wedding. I'm not talking about 2 year olds, but anyone over 4 can enjoy and appreciate and remember. Of course I gave them a whole 'shmuess' before hand, and they behaved!

amother

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:42 am

Having recently made 2 weddings here goes. Close family & friends-kids definetly invited. Not so close friends- never occured to invite the kids as neither the parents or chosson & kallah are friends of theirs.(S/o else mentioned this point). Some caterers will only do "kids meals" if they are at one table together,not with the parents. That means kids b/t the ages of 1 & 4,when they can sit at a table alone with other kids,you are paying a fortune & they aren't eating. My last wedding was not in NY, the hall charged per Chair,so even a bunch of chosson friends that came for dancing,the caterer set up a table only with the extra shmorg food,had he put chairs there would have been a charge by the hall. Also the bigger girls come just for dancing. My 16 yr dd has friends whose sibs get married the girls just come to dance & don't expect a seat or meal. Just kind of wonder around,they may share a meal of some adult who left before the meal was served,rude, & hosts are paying anyway.

We have friends whole family invited. The husband stayed for the whole wedding. The wife said don't order meals for her & kids b/c they will eat at shmorg then by the time 1st dance is over it's kids bedtime & she was taking them home.
Just a little of "the other side of the story".

downsyndrome

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:56 am

Mrs. XYZ wrote:

My daughter got married almost 2 years ago. I then had a 2.5 year old and an 8-month old who had already been stationed at the babysitter from b/4 Shabbos aufruf. The babysitter had her teenaged daughters bring my little ones to the hall, where my toddler's hair/face were made, we quickly slipped her gown and jewelry on, (the baby's 'wedding outfit' was at the babysitter, so she sent him dressed - he hardly had any hair to be made...) we dolled them up, took some pictures, and sent them right back home with the babysitter's daughters!! Believe me, by the time they were taken back home the photographer breathed a sigh of relief cuz my daughter was sending him on a wild-goose chase and then she wanted everything off the shmorgasboard, and she only wanted the bridal bouquet, etc., as children's needs go. I also breathed a sigh of relief. The next 'oldest' child was my then-six-year-old. I had made up with my neighbor that when she leaves the wedding, if the child is very tired, then he goes home to sleep by her. He did keep up well and didn't want to leave, so he stayed, but at mitzvah tantz he put 2 chairs together and curled up and slept through.
I am the youngest in my family, so there were no more aunts and uncles weddings from my side. My husband did have 2 younger sibs and I took my then-little ones for pictures and had my relatives from my side take then home afterward. Of course, the others didn't, and had kids tearing at their mothers' skirts all evening long, while I was able to really pay attention to the simcha.
I find that weddings and formal simchas are not the place for cousins to interact and take those memories with them into adulthood. Family Chanukah and Purim parties are really the time for that interaction and memory-making.

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:59 am

I think that in some very large families the little nieces and nephews of the chossen and kallah could add up to a large crowd. If cousins bring the kids, it is an even bigger crowd. If the kallah was a teacher, it will be an even bigger crowd! It looks to me that in those situations, the kids leave after the chuppah or at least after the first dancing but before the meal. They are sent to babysitters or are taken to there homes where there are babysitters. The music is too loud for them anyway.

ChavieK

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 12:05 pm

My ds just got married. My 2 yd old was there the whole time with a baby sitter. Both ds & dil wanted to have him there, at their will of course, which was just fine with me. It was their day. He danced & played & went right back to the sitter, & all the other who wanted a "turn" with him. He is the doll of the family.We have some great pictureds of him at the dancing & yet he didn't get in the way!!

cindy324

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 1:14 pm

I totally agree with downs! Children under a certain age do not belong at weddings. I especially can't stand it when I'm sitting down , someone sits down next to me with their toddler, who starts playing with their food, climbing up and down from mommy's lap, wiping his shoes in me in the process. One time, an acquaintance of mine walked into a wedding with her two kids, 3 and 8. I asked her how she can even enjoy herself with her kids nudging all the time. She said, her kids wanted to come, besides she takes them everywhere! shock

THEN she proceeded to sit her kids down at our table, each on a separate chair, chairs that were reserved for other guests. When I mentioned to her that others will probably come as this is their assigned table, she answered " So big deal, they'll sit somewhere else, there are always empty seats available", AND had the chutzpah to allow the waiters to serve her (uninvited) kids the entire 5 course meal! If I was the Baal Simcha, I would not have been happy I'm paying $100/person for those two!

Raisin

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 2:18 pm

Downs, that might work if you live in the same city as all your relatives, but not all of us do. I recently travelled to another country for my brothers wedding. I have a bunch of siblings, some came with all their kids, some with 1 or 2 kids. My kids do not see most of their cousins except for things like weddings. (My brother came with his kids from Australia. This was the first time they had met any of their cousins in their life)

All the kids were invited to the wedding and they had a great time, despite being really jet lagged. My two younger sons fell asleep after the chuppa and they slept in a corner, but my daughters had the time of their lives, dancing with each other and with the kalla.

(generally, with young kids, it is a very good idea to have a babysitter orginised who can take your kids home after a certain point when they get too tired to enjoy themselves.)

It is usually pretty clear when you receive an invitiation who is invited: It should say who is invited on the envelope - e.g Mr and Mrs Cohen if it's just the parents, or Mr and Mrs Cohen and family, or Mr and Mrs Cohen and Moishy and Shprintzy Cohen (or whatever) To bring children to a friends wedding unless they are specifiacally invited is a big chutzpa.

I have been at very fancy not frum weddings and children of the family were there throughout. Of course not frum families tend to be very adult heavy and light on children so this is not a big deal, as each child usually has many adult relativves to fuss over them.

amother

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 2:36 pm

morningstar wrote:

In sum, a parent should only bring a child to a simcha if the parents is prepared to take responsibility for the child all evening.

My husband's kollel just made a siyum and one couple brought all of their kids. She stood by the mechitza enjoying the speeches while her kids ran wild! They were so disruptive and simply didn't belong there. It was totally in appropriate.

OK. I'll step off of my soap box now.

Mama Bear

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 2:58 pm

blossom, you could alwyas leave a bottle of EBM or hire a babysitter at the wedding.

Personally, the only reason I wouldnt bring my kid with me at a simcha is because if I'm already dressing up, and going out, and sitting down to a meal, I want to be undisturbed. B"H I spend enough time with my child, and it's better for him to sleep in his own crib at night than to be cranky at a simcha hall and wanting my attention the entire time.

I took him along once to a sheva brachos because I did not have a babysitter. my mother in law was quite displeased. He played on the floor with his toys, kept wanting to come onto my lap, threw food around... I did not relax for a minute. that's not what I go to a sheva brachos for. I couldve stayed home if I had to be busy with him the entire 1 1/2 hours.

SouthernShalom

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 3:42 pm

I would like to say firstly that I don't believe in bringing my children where they aren't invited. Secondly my children go many places with me. I would say that from the time they were 2 1/2 or so they were required to sit quietly for durations. Mybe even 2 hours. Children, even very young ones can be taught to sit quietly. Give them something to do and increase time durations as they age. My youngest is 5 1/2 the oldest is 9. They would be capeable of not disrupting even if I didn't pay complete attention to them the whole time.

Raisin

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 4:00 pm

Blossom wrote:

Downsyndrome you might hate me for this Smile

But....I breastfeed exclusively.... so...
it's either ME WITH MY BABY or NONE.
(I am talking about close family simchas where I have to stay at least 2 hours and up.)
Other than that I agree with most of what you wrote about children and Simchas

I'm not sure why people would complain about a newborn baby. Unless they have colic, they are pretty quiet, sleep a lot, won't eat the food anyway and are unable to run around. The only thing people may object to is unsightly strollers sitting around.

I usually express milk for the rare occasions that I have to go out when I have a young baby. (I start expressing before I know I need it...just in case, and store it in the freezer.) when I am invited to a wwedding locally, it starts at 3pm and finishes 10 or 11 - really later, but usually it is mixed dancing so we do not stay for that bit.

And I agree with Mama Bear. Babysitters are expensive, but at least you can enjoy the night in peace. Once a baby is more than 6 months are so, they need to be in their own bed.

raizy

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:26 pm

where I come from children are always invited. mess and all.

except for one sheve brachos that my aunt made. she wanted that no one should bring any kids along. well we were all from out of town. what on earth should we have done with our kids. hang them on the ceiling??

we told her it is eighter the whole family or no family.... and my sisters and two brothers told her the same.anyways we all went with kids it was a nightmare..... her house is not child proof..... and I should have stayed home.... and that was after we fed our kids intghe hotel room so that no one should be hungry. .... we should have just done our own sheva brachas and let her keep her wacky house intact...u learn from your mistakes.

but still if u come from outof town what on earth are u suppose to do with the kids. ...

and forget it some towns are not babysitters friendly..they are all so busy going to the chasanhas and engagement and stuff .that they have no time to babysit...

and I expectied better from my relatives. no thanks akaraus hatov for all the help my dh and I did to them. show some apprication and send a kid or two over tohelp wacth the kids at these trying times. mut I think that some ny have forgotten how to think. they think of only themselves and that is it.

and I used to babysit almost every night... now I cant get babystitters for the life of me. now I have a good babysitter . adn when pple ask me who si babysitting I dont tell them ... I dont want to lose them. and I pay them well.

now that I totally went off topic. ...

mushmom

Mon, Jul 16 2007, 11:54 pm

Even with very close family, there are limts to certain behaviors. I definitely agree with only close family kids coming to weddings but just bc one's kids are the kallahs neices doesnt give them license to wreak havoc or just generally ignore all decorum.
im still annoyed, all these years later, at the way some of the little kids from mine and my husbands side held court at our wedding. Just to give you an idea: in all of the pictures of us walking from the chuppah, there are at least 4-5 kids hanging on to my husband- their favorite uncle-'s arm and shlepping him down- it was like that the entire wedding, under the chuppah (their parents let them stand up there where they proceeded to make us nuts) and during the dancing, when it was literally hard for me to dance with mine and my mothers friends, who were all so excited, bc I had this neice hanging on to my arm and wanting to dance the whole night!! (she was on my husbands side and I didnt want to insult my new sister in law by telling her to get lost!)
Whew- six years later... that felt good. Should have done it years ago.
Now where were their parents? RIGHT THERE! watching from the side and saying, oh you know they have been looking forward to this wedding for years!! well, very nice but so were we!! (more years than them, I would imagine) People tend to think that bc their child is so excited, it somehow becomes their day and they can act how they please-- not quite.
anyway- I have, I will admit, brought nursing (sleeping) babies to weddings when I was just stopping in to say mazel tov. a sleeping infant in a stroller doesnt bother anyone and if he woke up I would leave immediately. it was the only way I could make it. if that offended someone, I dont think it should have.

downsyndrome

Tue, Jul 17 2007, 12:06 am

RAisin, in response to your question about out-of-town weddings - 4 very close ones instantly come to mind. My husband's only brother lives in another country and married off his 3 daughters there. We attended each wedding and did not take along any of our little ones on the entire trip. When it's my husband's family that's making the simcha, then my family pitches in with taking my little ones for the extended period of time when we will be away, and vice versa. If I don't have family available, I allow friends, cousins, and neighbors to help, and of course, I reciprocate in kind when they need a return favor. If that doesn't either work, or if I have a very young baby that I don't feel it's fair to burden anybody with, I send to a commercial babysitter and pay through my nose, but I'd rather do it that way and maybe not get a new dress or sheitel for the simcha, rather than disrupt somebody's affair by bringing along rowdy, uninvited kids!