Spinoff attending wedding bring no gift/check

amother

Navy

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 12:49 pm

cnc wrote:

Most of my acquaintances have very large families kh, so there are constantly simchas.

By my own wedding, I received very generous gifts from my non religious relatives who were so happy to share in the Simcha. They have weddings a few times a year and it's a major deal to them.
Of course , when I get to their Simchas I make sure to reciprocate appropriately.

before I got married.... I probably only went to 20 wedding and maybe 8 bar mitzvahs in my life. Now there is something a few times a week. Can't go everything ...at this point I cringe when I actually have to attend ...another late night etc. At the moment, I have 6 wedding invitations and 1 bar mitzvah invitation on my counter ... I also never knew that this was normal until I came into this family and community.

amother

Navy

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 12:52 pm

sourstix wrote:

listen a lot of pp are struggling financially. its hard. to keep giving gifts all the time. its never ending. thats why I think its not fair to make pp feel guilty or say they are cheap. many of the weddings I attend are cousins I dont see all year I dont even know them. we live in diff cities. its my inlaws family. shes close to her siblings if she feels she wants to give she can. but uhoh if I decide not to come bec I dont knwo the chasan/kallah then inlaws would be angry. so I come but its a favor to her. the cousins have so many pp by the wedding they wouldnt even notice that idont come. they dont even remember if I came. so why do I need to do this effort? and still give a gift?

so if that's the case I don't think you have to give. But if you do give then they will remember that you came! If you come with all your kids, you should give ..not if you're just stopping in to say mazel tov. If your close friend made a simcha you would probably give something since they are close to you.

pesek zman

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 12:53 pm

cnc wrote:

m

I hear you but I have to comment on your word acquaintances, as opposed to friends

I only go to simchas of friends. In fact I only get invited to simchas of friends. And for my wedding, I only invited friends. If they were on the maybe list, they weren't invited. Yes, my simcha was 'small' just as I wanted it to be

Explain why I have a few simchas a year as opposed to per week

cnc

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 12:58 pm

pesek zman wrote:

You're absolutely correct, that's another problem....
By acquaintances I include when my first cousins (that I barely know)marry of their children, neighbors that I'm friendly with but am not close with, workmates etc.

Amarante

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 1:01 pm

I think people pretty much know what the norms are in their social circles and so whatever is the norm, is the norm.

That said, if the norm is NOT to bring a present one can always bring a present. However, absent unusual circumstances, not bringing a present in those social circles in which it is the norm, is going to be viewed as the person being either cheap or being totally without manners.

Yes I realize that a gift is a gift and not an obligation etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda - :-) but this is true in theory. In practice, you will be viewed as a shnorrer unless there are extenuating circumstances. But even in extenuating circumstances, people will make an effort to get SOMETHING.

Within family, in my experience cousins up to a certain age don't give separately but the aunts and uncles generally give VERY generous cash gifts.

Again, this is not a judgment on those social circles in which gifts are not given but just the reality that in most of the US, gifts for weddings are the norm.

And not to sidetrack, but I was also raised that one doesn't go anywhere to eat without bringing a "hostess" present. Even as a teenager, my mother sent me off with some kind of hostess gift if I was invited somewhere. Again, not a value judgment but just what seemed to be the norm in my social group.

cnc

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 1:03 pm

amother wrote:

My father always says that when he was growing up wedding invitations were sent out approximately six weeks prior to the wedding. People had weddings so rarely so it was a huge occasion and they marked it down in their calendars.
These days we send out invitations two weeks or less before the wedding because there are so many events ,the closer to the occasion that you let people know about it the less chance there is of them forgetting.

He may have been trying to be humorous, but the point he makes is true.

Maya

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 2:28 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I've never heard of going to a wedding and not giving anything, no gift at all? How low class!

When you have three hundred first cousins and second cousins and third cousins twice removed, plus a hundred neighbors and friends and their cats, whose weddings you are obligated to attend or risk snide remarks about your absence, you drop the gift giving culture, thankyouverymuch.

Ema of 5

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 5:24 pm

cnc wrote:

We have never received a wedding invitation less than a month before the wedding. (The same with a bar mitzva or anything else we get an invitation to.) BH we have quite a few. The best way to not forget is to mark everything down :-)

Maya

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 5:49 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

Actually we've been getting quite a few invitations lately the week before and two weeks before a simcha. One from an uncle even came with a return card one week before the wedding. I couldn't figure that one out.

Raisin

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 5:59 pm

I think it is simple, even if you receive many invitations a week. If you feel close enough to go and sit and eat, bring a gift. If you just pop in to say mazel tov, no need for a gift.

Unless you are really struggling and can't afford anything and its a really close friend...still go. Close friends want you there, gift or not.

gp2.0

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 6:12 pm

Maya wrote:

Actually, I was going to say that in chassidish crowds, close friends and family often give a gift at the tenoyim/engagement party. The logic usually goes, if you're close enough to attend the tenoyim, you should give a gift. Weddings are not considered family events as such, with huge extended families and huge circles of acquaintances they're more like community events.

Eta: cats? shock

Maya

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 6:26 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Yes, that's true. My post was about weddings.

(Not too many cats in Chassidish circles, you're right Smile

)

Amarante

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 6:30 pm

I don't want to put words in people's mouths.

However, it seem as though (per Maya's last post) that engagement parties in Chassidish circles are more the equivalent of a wedding in terms of there being a limited guest list of close relatives and friends.

I know from experience that because of the costs, wedding invitation lists are often ruthlessly pruned because 150 people at a wedding would be considered to be moderately large among many. So they aren't considered community events and not acquaintances and distant relatives don't make the list.

With smaller guest lists, there are fewer invitations and so there is less of a financial burden in terms of gifts and also the invitations comes from close relatives/friends who are more likely to want to give as a genuine expression of affection/love because they are closer to the wedding families.

Perhaps that explains the difference in norms?

singleagain

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 8:00 pm

The last few weddings I attended I was helping out with preparations, and did not have a job. Other times I gave a gift at the bridal shower. And I know my parents will send a check in with the response card. Just bc one doesn't come with a gift or envelope, didn't mean it wasn't given already (or possibly on the way.... Honestly if I was going to give something big like a kitchen aid, I'd order online to ship to kallah, and it might not arrive till after.... Also sometimes I'll wait till after and see what has not been bought on registry and buy something then)

WhatFor

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 9:58 pm

Based on these responses, it looks like this is all about culture, culture, culture!
Certainly in secular western culture, the norm is to pay for your plate, so to speak. My experience within Modern Orthodoxy is similar- if you're going to sit at a table, you buy a gift/ write a check.
This seems impracticable in certain communities, so as long as everyone in the community is on the same page, who cares if no one gives gifts?
Just keep in mind that if you're attending a wedding in a community where gifts are expected and you don't give, you may be giving an impression that you're a moocher. When in Rome....

BrachaBatya

Tue, Dec 29 2015, 10:25 pm

WhatFor wrote:

Very well said.