Making a wedding and supporting a young couple

Heyaaa

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 4:56 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

My daughter is fully aware how difficult this is. I'm hoping she'll be working in her field by the time babies come. My parents are poor. My husband's Dad has a good pension and he doesn't need all the $ to live on. But my husband and I have always been independent, we got little to no help, we were both working in our fields when we got married. It breaks my heart to turn into a beggar now, all because of a system I never subscribed to or believed in.

If you're dad is a senior then you never know what expenses will come up. I don't understand why you would be cool asking him for money for a non emergency.

If you don't believe in this system, don't support it. However you would refuse any of her other desires that you can't afford, use the same speech and tell her that if you have a want then your income has to reflect that want. 'Your' income meaning your daughters.

You could also tell her that if Hashem thought it was her tafkid to learn in kollel then Hashem might have made her parents rich but if her parents have to suffer because she's learning in kollel then there is no schar in that.

amother

Seagreen

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 5:54 am

To me this scenario is Unbelievable! That a grandfather should be EXPECTED to support his married grandchild... And his GREAT GRANDCHILDREN???? I mean it's a system but WOA! Hoe is the daughter going to work when she's just had ba baby? And who will give tuition?? When does Abba and Sabba abs Sabbarabba get to learn?

On the other hand, I guess... Have you read PRIDE and Prejudice?

gold21

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 6:20 am

If the system feels wrong to you, why did u put your daughter through it, culminating in her choosing to marry a long-term learning boy without a plan.....

If your instincts tell you this is a backwards system, then follow those instincts and dont let your daughter fall victim to a bad system.

Anyway.... with all that said- good luck to you and to your daughter, and she should marry the right guy at the right time IYH. Tongue Out

amother

Azure

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 6:57 am

Please do not ask your elderly, retired parents or in law's for money in order to provide financial support for able bodied individuals. Is your daughter working now? If not, can she find a job asap? I seriously can't believe that the Kollel system is still being actively promoted, since it seems obvious to many that it is not sustainable.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 7:05 am

gold21 wrote:

She said she didn't put her daughter through the system. She said she disagrees with it and never agreed to it.

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 7:48 am

OP, what can you afford to give?

If you are willing to go along with this scheme, I would recommend offering whatever is a more comfortable amount for you without begging(let's say $1,00/month) and offer it for a set amount of time, let's say 6 months.

If this doesn't go through, definitely sit down with your daughter to talk about expectations and make it clear what you are willing to give her. If it's nothing (meaning no set amount), tell her upfront. It's harder to deal with mid dating and is much more of a rejection.

Girls without money to support still get married.

2cents

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 8:02 am

I see you are assuming that when your daughter gets a job, you're "off the hook" for support. If you go ahead with tbis, make sure that that is understood by the mechutanim. From what I have heard from friends, getting a job doesn't let you off the hook, and if you stop paying you might cause shalom bayis problems and problems for your daughter with her in laws.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 8:57 am

I have an alternate suggestion: instead of giving the young couple money, have them live with you for the first year. that way, they save on rent and utilities. let them know that they are expected to provide their own groceries. health insurance can go any way you want. it won't break the bank for you, you'd be supporting them in a helpful way, and they can save up for their independence. if they want privacy, though, good luck to all of you.

say no to supporting if you can't afford it/don't believe in it. no reason to make yourself miserable.

watergirl

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:13 am

Theres a ton of things here that we don't know - please tell me if I'm summing it up correctly.
-It sounds like you and DH didn't raise your kids in this type of world, although it is a bit confusing to that respect because you said you have a son who is learning in beis medrish instead of college.
-It sounds like because you arent in on all the details, you didn't do the typical shidduch research that people do before the couple begin to date, which is why they are already semi serious, and you are just now getting into the financial expectations? Was there someone helping her get into this shidduch, shepherding her, rather than her parents until this point?
-It sounds like you *think* you are playing for the entire wedding but you dont know for sure and this part hasnt been verified yet by talking to his parents?
-This couple, who has not a penny to their name, will have to live off food stamps and live in a basement apartment. Can I assume they will only live where the rents are known to be high?
- It also sounds like your daughter is getting a frum teaching degree? Correct me if I'm wrong. But If I'm right, then her salary will also be very low because she can only work in a frum school.
- You are afraid that if you wont agree to this kind of support, she will have trouble getting married?
- She knows how hard this will be for you. She knows it means her brother suffering, you suffering, and your father suffering.
- She is ok with all of that suffering because she will only marry a kollel boy, not a working boy?

Who is in charge here? I would tell my daughter that you can not provide support, you dont believe in it and you cant afford it. If she insists on this lifestyle then she can provide it for herself. Or she can marry a fine young man who will learn and work.

Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:25 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Rose

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:17 am

How do you know his parents will be okay with a cheap wedding? They might want you to use a certain hall. Don't assume that you will be supporting you can get a way with a cheaper wedding.
Also, you never discussed with your daughter before she started dating in general your financial ability to help her support a learning boy?

watergirl

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:23 am

amother wrote:

Because it sounds like she will be footing the entire wedding bill as well. So she can make it however she wants.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:28 am

amother wrote:

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Usually whoever is paying does the choosing.

I'm one of 7 girls B"AH and in most situations my parents paid for the wedding and the boys side did FLOP. That means my parents chose where to make the wedding, and the boys side chose the extent of the FLOP - some had nicer flowers, some very simple. Some had a one-man-band, and some had a combination of singers and musicians...the quality of the photography varied. Just like my parents had no say in the FLOP, the other side didn't get to choose the hall.

Only one sister got married in a hall that had an all-inclusive package deal, and there both sides paid 50% and agreed on the hall to begin with.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:37 am

I dont get. maybe because im chassidish. when we got married I was working and dh earned money from kollel and night kollel and vasikin kollel. my parents gave us $800 a month. we managed until my parents stopped giving us and then dh went to work, at first only before seder and during his lunch break, later instead of one seder and then much later he got a full-time job while going to college.

other friends had money from working a year or two and used that instead of parental support for the first 2-3 years.

amother

Lime

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:38 am

You may not subscribe to this system, but you are obviously raising your children in a community that does. So indirectly, unless you made it clear while they were growing up otherwise, you ARE raising them this way. Now that you brought them up this way, I don't think it would be fair of you to suddenly do otherwise. If your daughter went to typical Brooklyn, Lakewood, etc bais Yaakov schools, then they were probably taught for years already that this is the only way. I think it's a little late in the game to be second guessing the system that your daughter was raised in. These things have to be taken into consideration when choosing schools, communities, seminaries and yeshivos.

tigerwife

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:45 am

I can't understand why she does not get a job right now until she is qualified for her professional career. I did a full time job while in college full-time, and while it was hectic, as a single girl I did not have too many other responsibilities. Even a starter customer service job for 25k a year will push her way ahead instead of looking forward to a life of poverty!

I'm not half as yeshivish as the bulk of the kollel society but I knew I wanted a kollel life and had to work for it! And yes, my parents are well off BH and wanted to help out but it was nowhere near $1,500 a month, because BH I did not need it. And this was with a job that needed no degree!

I just can't wrap my mind around this. Everyone can blame the system but really, what is your daughter thinking? How old is she?

I'm not one to bash kollel as I am a kollel wife myself. I hate to see kollel life generalized as unsustainable because with proper planning, it can be very much sustainable. A household of 2 should not need that much to live on. Maybe when they have a couple of kids it's time to re-evaluate but to depend on handouts at this point is insane.

I'm sorry if I am harsh, OP, but I can't understand it.

b from nj

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:54 am

Reading this thread is just so sad to me.

I am thankful that my DD24 never subscribed to the Kollel learning lifestyle b/c I would not have been able to afford it. I also didn't send her to schools that pushed it but she did go to seminary where it was recommended but thankfully not pushed & she always knew that it was not what she herself wanted especially since I was ALWAYS very clear from the outset that I would NOT be able to support her financially after she got married.

As it turned out, she married someone who had a lot of schooling ahead of him & BH they are surviving but it is certainly not easy especially with a baby on the way & only 1 not so high paying salary.

I really feel for you OP if you feel that you have no choice but to go ahead with this insanity & agree to spend money you don't have & will need to borrow just to support an able-bodied guy who should be learning a trade in order to support his wife (according to the kesubah) & not the other way around.

I had a hard enough time paying for all of the wedding expenses that we needed to pay for. That was seriously challenging enough b/c the other side were picky about where they were willing to make a wedding & were not willing to consider many "cheaper" halls even though we were paying for the hall & they were paying for FLOPS!

Hatzlacha to you OP!!

amother

White

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 9:54 am

we were in kollel for the first year and a half and we had zero support. once the babies came along my husband got a job.

This whole thing is disgusting and broken. Isn't Torah learning supposed to come with some middos? where does blackmailing the kallahs parents into financial support they can't afford come in to all of this?