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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Burgundy
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 Tue, Jan 26 2016, 11:49 pm
I just finished listening to Rechnitz's speech in Lakewood where he spoke about kids not being accepted into schools and I feel like there is a possible solution to the problem.
It's to implement some type of match program in Lakewood.
All medical students apply for their residency through the match program which basically ensures that you are accepted to the highest one school that you ranked on your application, being that the school accepted you. It eliminates the inevitability of the top students being accepted to all the schools that they applied to and the weaker students not being accepted anywhere. All students who do not match anywhere( which is a small percentage) are then placed into 8 subsequent matching rounds until most students are matched within a short time ( the ones who are left still unmatched are usually foreign trained).
It's based on a complicated mathematical algorithm that won a Nobel prize in economics.
While it won't completely solve the problem of every kid getting into a school, because there might still be a few unmatched kids in the end, it will definitely reduce the number of kids without a school. It will also stop the ability of parents to call a school and threaten to pull their kid out if some other kid is accepted ( which Rechnitz mentioned is a common occurrence) because there won't be the possibility of their child going to another school.
What do you guys think?
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amother
Slateblue
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 12:18 am
The matching algorithim works for two reasons:
First, it's a closed system, with every student participating. In Lakewood, the yechidei segula will somehow be granted exemptions.
Second, the teaching hospitals gain because they are spared the problem of accepting students who will turn them down. Elementary schools know that whoever gets in is going to accept (with few exceptions) so they have no incentive to participate.
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amother
Crimson
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 8:54 am
The reality is that the "system" in Lakewood doesn't want to create a match program as efficient as it may seem. If they would do this, then:
1. Principals and heads of schools would miss out on all the ego building begging, bribery, flattery of basically every parent and rabbi in town. They will then have to come down to earth and be like all the other lowly people that currently kiss up to them. Which head of school wants to give up on that?
2. Parents would lose their feeling of elitism and ability to brag about the schools their children are in. Those who don't live in Lakewood cannot imagine how pervasive this part of the culture is. How else would people distinguish themselves among the hordes if they can't brag endlessly about their families school?
3. People would lose the ability to actively exclude other families and children. Again, this is disgustingly another part of the culture. Of course, people would disguise this in hashkafic terms such as "I don't want to allow a computer to decide who will be influencing my children in school" or other such drivel. As long as the current system is in place, parents can continue to pat themselves on the back for all their efforts in creating the perfect little bubble for their shefalas and bubbalas.
4. If the match system would be put in place, parents and mechanchim would have to take a step back and actually redirect all the wasted time and energy that goes on yearly into school acceptance. Instead of resting on their laurels and abdicating responsibility for their children because they are in the "perfect exclusive" school, parents would have to take responsibility for being mechanech their own children instead of allowing the schools and streets of all the various developments to do so. What a novel concept.
Signed, A former Lakewood resident who got out and whose children are a million times better for it chinuch-wise
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Mevater
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:13 am
| amother wrote: | | Signed, A former Lakewood resident who got out and whose children are a million times better for it chinuch-wise |
I think what attracts lots of people to Lakewood is the low prices of houses. Where can a Toradig family go, thats driving distance to their New York area jobs and family, that offers affordable housing?
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Mevater
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:28 am
| amother wrote: | | It was affordable |
If youre referring to Lakewood having been affordable and is no longer affordable, compare it to Brooklyn and Queens, and other frum communities. Thats always been the big plus.
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Chayalle
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:32 am
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Who's going to decide what rank to assign to each school? Based on what criteria? I can't imagine the school administrations going along with this.
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amother
Red
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:37 am
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Thats the whole problem...that lkwd prices is being compared to bklyn. Lkwd compared to lkwd is just ridiculous already. My house DOUBLED in value in 3 years. Prices are compleately out of control and are just being driven up when NYers come here and are willing to pay the price.
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ChutzPAh
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:39 am
| Chayalle wrote: | | Who's going to decide what rank to assign to each school? Based on what criteria? I can't imagine the school administrations going along with this. |
The schools don't assign a rank, rather the people applying choose their #1 and #2 schools. If their #1 school accepts them, then that is where they "match".
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amother
Red
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:39 am
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Not every school is the right fit for every child you cant just place random children into random schools.
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amother
Red
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:41 am
| ChutzPAh wrote: | | The schools don't assign a rank, rather the people applying choose their #1 and #2 schools. If their #1 school accepts them, then that is where they "match". |
Thats what the highschools do
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Chayalle
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:43 am
| amother wrote: | | Thats what the highschools do |
Really? Since when?
I have a ninth grader, and I don't recall being asked my opinion on which school I want to send her to. I didn't hear anyone else being asked, either.
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amother
Red
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:53 am
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I dont have high school age children but was told by close family members that do have children going in or are in high school that they filled out a form in order of preference of girls high schools that they wanted
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Chayalle
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:54 am
| amother wrote: | | I dont have high school age children but was told by close family members that do have children going in or are in high school that they filled out a form in order of preference of girls high schools that they wanted |
then that is brand new for this year's 8th grade class. I'm happy to hear it - it's a small step in the right direction.
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amother
Salmon
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 9:59 am
| amother wrote: | The reality is that the "system" in Lakewood doesn't want to create a match program as efficient as it may seem. If they would do this, then:
1. Principals and heads of schools would miss out on all the ego building begging, bribery, flattery of basically every parent and rabbi in town. They will then have to come down to earth and be like all the other lowly people that currently kiss up to them. Which head of school wants to give up on that?
2. Parents would lose their feeling of elitism and ability to brag about the schools their children are in. Those who don't live in Lakewood cannot imagine how pervasive this part of the culture is. How else would people distinguish themselves among the hordes if they can't brag endlessly about their families school?
3. People would lose the ability to actively exclude other families and children. Again, this is disgustingly another part of the culture. Of course, people would disguise this in hashkafic terms such as "I don't want to allow a computer to decide who will be influencing my children in school" or other such drivel. As long as the current system is in place, parents can continue to pat themselves on the back for all their efforts in creating the perfect little bubble for their shefalas and bubbalas.
4. If the match system would be put in place, parents and mechanchim would have to take a step back and actually redirect all the wasted time and energy that goes on yearly into school acceptance. Instead of resting on their laurels and abdicating responsibility for their children because they are in the "perfect exclusive" school, parents would have to take responsibility for being mechanech their own children instead of allowing the schools and streets of all the various developments to do so. What a novel concept.
Signed, A former Lakewood resident who got out and whose children are a million times better for it chinuch-wise |
Just curious where you moved to since we're looking into other communities
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Iymnok
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 10:05 am
How does this algorithm work with siblings? I'd assume that for elementary school they should be in the same school.
If they get priority, is there a way to avoid giving others priority thus keeping what's going on now.
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srbmom
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 11:04 am
Also, if you look into it more, the Match program leaves 100s of students each year without residencies.
Most of those that don't get matched are either trying to get into a very exclusive specialty or have had academic hardships. Also, the far out/not as exciting places have a harder time getting students to apply for residencies.
The whole situation actually sounds a lot like Lakewood!
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anon for this
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 11:23 am
I've thought about this idea too. A match system would require more effort from the schools, because they'd need to review applications and interview qualifying parents (and maybe students) to decide how to rank each applicant. As slateblue amother said, if schools have no problem filling their classrooms, then they currently have little incentive to participate.
But I agree with OP that a match system could be much better for students and parents.
Schools could still choose to prioritize certain students, such as teacher' children or siblings of existing students, by ranking them accordingly.
(The challenge of placing twins or triplets in the same school would be analogous to couples matching in the residency program).
Parents or students who prefer to be more selective can choose to rank fewer schools, but they then have a greater chance of not matching at any school.
Students sometimes complain that the residency match program is too opaque, but I think that if a similar system were implemented for Lakewood school admissions, many parents would consider it more transparent than the current system.
I see also that the scramble has been replaced with further rounds of matching. That's a huge improvement.
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Lizzie4
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Wed, Jan 27 2016, 12:01 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | | then that is brand new for this year's 8th grade class. I'm happy to hear it - it's a small step in the right direction. |
It's always been like that. Where you will get in doesn't necessarily depend on that even though there is some effort made by the Vaad.
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