Trump is a sick egotistical and dangerous maniac!

Amarante

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 8:46 pm

Laiya wrote:

I imagine she's saying that when you add together all of the different taxes one can owe (including capital gains for example), it can come out to 46%.

Capital gains are at a lower rate and aren't paid on top of other taxes since they are paid on sale of long term investments and the rich have lots of ways of shielding their investments from event capital gains which middle income investors don't have.

Actually the tax rate is most unfair to those making a lower amount since FICA taxes are paid from first dollar earner with no exemptions. They also cap at approximately $118,000 so highly paid workers get a significant tax break.

Sales tax is also a regressive tax that hits the poor and working class disproportionately.

Laiya

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:02 pm

Amarante wrote:

I didn't mean that capital gains taxes are computed based on income taxes. I meant that when one adds up all of the taxes owed, including the capital gains tax--it can come to more than 28% of their earnings.

This is more likely to be an issue for businesses, or small business owners, than for salaried employees.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 10:23 pm

marina wrote:

It's not a matter of believing or not believing. It's a matter of doing research. Or just basic googling. Illegal immigrants pay state sales tax, as well as often paying regular tax as well. They often pay into the social security system and do not take out.

http://www.businessinsider.com.....012-1

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/2.....yths/

https://www.aclu.org/immigrati.....facts

The research you present openly states that illegal aliens are breaking the law. Whether they stay after their visa expired or enter illegally altogether is irrelevant, they are still breaking the law. It was also not clear how exactly illegal aliens are paying income taxes or social security taxes if they cannot work legally to begin with?

Tourists, foreign exchange students, foreigners with work visas, etc all pay taxes as well. They could also buy houses here and pay taxes on that as well. Why are illegal aliens given a free pass for breaking the law?

It also stated that it costs $200-700 to get a visa (plus unknown amount of legal fees-do you know what that amount is?) but people don't want to wait so they pay smugglers $3000-$70,000 to help them get here illegally. Is this some joke? Where do they get thousands of dollars for smugglers fees? And if they can afford this then why not go to a safe place until they can get into america legally? And one of the article says that the fee to become a citizen is only $675 and then makes it seem like illegal aliens have a hard time meeting that fee. Ha! if they can afford up to $70,000 for smugglers then $675 shouldn't be hard to obtain.

Here is another article that may have a different perspective than the ones you posted--

http://www.fairus.org/issue/il.....crime

Sadie

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 2:15 am

gold21 wrote:

Thats not what she said.

There definitely is a problem in this country where people with conservative views are attacked for expressing those views.

As a random example (just popped into my head lol), I assume u are familiar with Caitlyn Jenner. She was loved by liberals until just recently, when she indicated support for Ted Cruz. Well, a conservative viewpoint is just not okay for some people and many of her social media followers expressed anger at her stance. A conservative viewpoint? Just not okay to have.

Well, that is what turned so many people onto Trump in the first place, in my view. Conservatives are tired of pandering to liberal agendas and playing their games. Conservatives are entitled to their viewpoints, and the way liberals tend to respond when they hear conservative sentiments being expressed, well thats just un-American.

So, I agree its a problem in the US.

First of all she did say it's the biggest problem, that's why I bolded it.

Second of all it sounds like you're saying that liberals should hold back from criticizing conservative viewpoints in order to be nice. Why on earth should we do that? We should sit back and play nice while the other side gets a free pass to play nasty? When our candidates are called Kenyan Muslim atheist communists or ballbusting b*tches who have their periods we shouldn't call them on it? When republican candidates are publicly comparing p*nis size on a national debate stage you're actually saying that we have the rhetoric problem?

marina

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 2:23 am

wondergirl wrote:

1. You seem to be very hung up on following the laws. We all recognize that following the law is essential to maintaining a civilized society. Yet, "following the law" is not the end all and be all. Sometimes the more moral act is to break the law. For example, in Germany, there were many laws discriminating against Jews and breaking those laws was more moral than following them. That's an extreme example, but on a smaller scale, we see this all the time. Just because someone is "breaking the law" doesn't make them equal to a murderer or rapist. There are different laws, some more valid and others less valid.

2. If an illegal alien uses a false SS number, taxes are taken every paycheck. And at least half of all illegals pay taxes using an individual taxpayer ID number that is like a SS. Here's an example http://www.illinoislegalaid.or.....=8418

3. Re smuggler fees: This is what the article stated:

Quote:

According to the State Department, the fees to obtain permanent U.S. visas can range from $200 to over $700, excluding legal fees. Plus, there are visa quotas which limits immigration from any given country.
In many poor, violence-ridden countries, or in cases where parents are separated from their children, immigrants say the wait is unbearable, leaving many to resort to illegal border crossing.
That journey can be expensive and deadly.
Smugglers charge anywhere from $3000 to upwards of $70,000 depending on country of origin, mode of transport and distance travelled according to the Mexican Migration Project, a multidisciplinary research effort between investigators in Mexico and the U.S.
Many don't make it. According to federal records, more than 6,000 immigrants have died crossing the southern border since 1998

First, the application for a visa is 200-700 straight up front. Smugglers will often let you pay over years. But more importantly, it doesn't matter if you can't get a visa in the first place. Like I said a few times, if you have no family or employer in the US, it often doesn't matter how much money you have saved up or not- still not going to get a visa. And even if you do qualify for a visa, you'll be waiting for years.

675 is just to file the INS form.

marina

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 2:27 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

So what you saying basically, marina is that of I am, In a situation, sad and tragic as it may be,I can steal from you and break any law I want, because I wasnt born into prosperity

What if the entire third world decides to come to america and other wealthy countries and steal what they need

Do you understand that just like Israel is a country created for Jews, so too America is a country created for immigrants?

So what you wrote makes as much sense as if I said : OMG what if all the Jews in the world decide to come to Israel and overcrowd it and rob it and steal what they need!

Last edited by marina on Mon, Mar 07 2016, 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total

marina

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 2:34 am

gold21 wrote:

That doesnt sound like a fun immigration game.

It sounds like an oversimplification of the issues to suit your agenda. You are presenting only one side. Surely you recognize that we are going to pick up on your misrepresentation of the issue.

People have this idea that legal immigration is something possible for everyone, if they are just wise and frugal and patient. That's why wondergirl keeps saying "well, my parents did it, so why can't everyone else?"

My point is that no, legal immigration is not possible for everyone. That's why if you are a widow from Guatemala with no relative or employer in the US, there is zero opportunity for you or your kids to come legally. It's not an agenda or only one side or whatever- it's just a fact for that woman. She has no legal options to come here and all the wisdom and frugality and patience in the world is not going to help.

Amarante

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 8:44 am

Heyaaa wrote:

I don't know the term but if you own a company and you don't want the government to come after you in case of bankruptcy, then you have to pay an extra tax. I think it's called a limited liability company where if the company went under, the government would only go after the company and not after the owners personal belongings.

This is tangential to the original thread but that's not the way corporate taxes work.

If a corporation is incorporated properly and it is operated properly (I.e. separate books are kept and no mingling of personal and corporate funds), the corporation is the legal entity and the shareholders do not face personal liability whether it is for finances, civil suits or even criminal actions.

There is no separate tax - the corporation files tax returns with the IRS and compensation paid by the corporation to workers is deducted from corporate earnings and treated as earnings by the workers.

There is a type of corporation called a Subchapter S Corporation - a lot of entertainment people have this kind of set up and taxes are done a bit differently.

However, the bottom line is that the very wealthy and many corporations get away with murder in terms of being able to utilize tax schemes to minimize tax payments.

As I pointed out in another thread, Warren Buffett pointed out the unfairness of the US tax system whereby he paid a lower percentage of his income than his secretary.

November

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 8:44 am

marina wrote:

I don't know if you are joking or not but that would wreak havoc on the State of Israel. No one gets in here without months of inspections and applications and interviews. Then, we don't steal anything. And anyone who did would be caught and fined or given whatever the consequence is, jewish or not.
As to the issue of overcrowding, that certainly does happen but knowing that there is only one Jewish state and that (almost) all Jews are given the right of return makes it palatable. Not so much if they start giving right of return to Arab "Palestinians."

Heyaaa

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 9:27 am

Amarante wrote:

The way that they ensure that the company is operated separately from the owners is that there is a certain tax that they are required to pay twice. The company has to pay that tax before it leaves the company and then the recipient (the owner) has to pay that tax again for his personal taxes.

But if major corporations have different laws that allow them to avoid certain taxes, the answer is not to increase taxes on the rich. The answer is to change the laws that are currently allowing for these loopholes. Merely increasing the percent that the top one percent (which is what I hear they want to do) won't give the government the billions in lost revenue that they claim to be after. In such a case, the only ones who will be punished are the tax payers who already diligently pay their taxes exactly according to the law.

gold21

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 9:33 am

Sadie wrote:

Again, I dont quite follow what youre saying here.

A lot of what goes on in politics is rather off-putting. Both sides can be rather harsh to the opposing side.

With regard to the "ballbusting b#tches who have their periods" thats a gross exaggeration of what was actually said. And megyn kelly is not a candidate altogether.

I hope u dont mind if I continue with the Caitlyn Jenner example, simply because its an easy example and I dont have to think, it is in my mind already. Was Caitlyn playing nasty by suggesting she supports Ted Cruz? And to take this a step further, other celebrities have dealt with backlash after taking conservative viewpoints. Stacey Dash is one example.

Theres nothing wrong with having conservative viewpoints. Theres nothing wrong with havinging liberal viewpoints. In fact, I find it nice that the US is a free country that supports varied belief systems. However, liberal viewpoints are a lot more popular to have and to share, leaving conservatives feeling frustrated and marginalized.

We can argue this point from here to the moon and back, but the bottom line is that conservatives are tired of being ganged up on and attacked for expressing their views. Its rather un-American.

gold21

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 9:40 am

marina wrote:

I think a good solution to that would be immigration reform. I hear why that would be beneficial.

Entering the country illegally is still not something I can support, except in specific cases. Immigration reform, on the other hand, I can support- assuming that doesnt mean unlimited amounts of refugees or weaker screening of refugees, but rather easier access to legal paperwork and legal channels along with careful screening of refugees.

myym

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 10:25 am

I did not have a chance to read through everyone's comments. However, just a few days ago before this was posted on imamother and before I even knew about the quoted rally, I had this thought that he is like the next Hitler chas vshalom. He simply gets people to follow him bec of his charisma. He is a downright fool. Is disrespectful and rude , and I am shocked that anyone on this forum, who are supposed to be frum respectable women would actually vote for someone as low as him. Besides for all the extreme problems of him being president, the mere fact that he can stand in a presidential campaign and start name calling, takes him out of the game in my book. What is he a two yr old?? How can a president set such standards? We teach kinder- garden children not to speak that way.
Is that really who you want to be running our country? It is simply mind boggling and downright scary that he came this far. I really hope and pray that Hashem will protect us from this danger.

Sadie

Mon, Mar 07 2016, 11:03 am

gold21 wrote:

I think that the conservative sense of persecution is unwarranted. The nastiest rhetoric is coming from the conservative side of the aisle. The terrorist that shot up a planned parenthood (and killed a young mother, and army veteran, and a police officer) quoted verbatim the republican candidates' talking points on PP. And none of them of course took any responsibility for the real life results of their lies. And look at the sick Birther movement, there hasn't been anything quite like that from our side.

I'm not sure if Trump ever discussed Hillary Clinton's period, but he did call her disgusting for having to take a bathroom break at a debate, and has talked about, on the Howard Stern show, how his wife makes sure he is never aware of her needing to poop. Also he and Rubio are engaged in a d*ck measuring contest. And that's just trump, and just a few very recent examples out of thousands. You can't exaggerate when it comes to trump. He mocked the spastic hand movements of a disabled reporter! C'mon...

I don't like Ted Cruz, I don't like Stacey Dash, and I don't like Caitlyn Jenner. I don't like their ideas and I don't think they're good people. I support their right to speak their minds freely but I don't think that means that we should refrain from criticizing them.