Supporting married children

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Forum -> Parenting our children

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amother

Chocolate

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:31 pm

By the way, I am op and I was brought up the same way as you'll see if you look thru my posts on this thread. That's why it bothers me when we are raised to be so financially irresponsible and then they won't help us when reality hits.

amother

Salmon

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

Hugs

I'm going through the exact same thing

amother

Gray

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:37 pm

the reason why is because pretty much no ones' budget allows for supporting multiple families and as well it tends to lead to very dependent and dysfunctional relationships enmeshed hostile dependence resentment and jealousies. ugh

amother

Gray

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:47 pm

The entitlement factor tends to become overriding. Who are the married children to tell the parents who have worked hard and saved all their lives how to spend and how to live. Helping is one thing. Dependence and unreasonable expectations are quite another.

amother

Salmon

Sun, May 08 2016, 4:54 pm

amother wrote:

If those very parents have brought up dependant children who as another amother put it 'are capable and able-bodied people' who have just been put through a system of dependence, what else are you expecting?
What do you classify as unreasonable expectations?
I think I can safely assume that everyone on this thread that needs parental help needs it to be able to buy basic groceries or shoes for their kids. They're not buying expensive cars or a lot of clothes- basic necessities that have been denied of them by oh-so-holy upbringing.

amother

Gray

Sun, May 08 2016, 7:53 pm

bottom line it is not sustainable

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 08 2016, 8:00 pm

Bottoms line is that once when I was single I came downstairs while
My father was on the phone with a shadchan and I heard him say that he will fully support. I argued and said I will support myself to which my father laughed and said no boy wants to hear that girl will support they want support from parents. So if parents put their child in a situation that they are dependent on the parents are the children really spoiled to expect what parents promised they would do.

I wanted to get a degree and wait to get married but I was literally forced and promised don't worry we will take care of you for life. I don't think I am spoiled and I think I have a right to be upset at my parents.

dancingqueen

Sun, May 08 2016, 8:45 pm

For the kollel folks who thought their parents would support them and their large families for life- did you know basic economics and how much frum life costs? I'm surprised anyone could think that was sustainable.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 08 2016, 8:49 pm

When you are 18 and you have your parents credit card and you never made a penny in your life and you were always was able to buy whatever you want without thinking then no you have no idea what real life cost.

amother

Aqua

Sun, May 08 2016, 8:50 pm

amother wrote:

Why is it when you are single your parents will buy you all your clothes and suddenly you get married they won't buy you a thing to wear?

amother

Chocolate

Sun, May 08 2016, 8:52 pm

Not only were we not taught basic economic understanding or responsibilities, but if you read thru previous posts, you'll see how we were all but brainwashed to believe mysterious checks arrive in the mail as needed.

For the record I did not marry a kollel guy because my husband and I realized we actually need money to live, but still vey disillusioned by the fact that he missed out on prime college years and had no clue how to go about pursuing a real degree until it was all but too late. Again, unless you were brought up this way, please refrain from judgment, as now we both realize just how stupid this all sounds. Too little too late. But hopefully not too late to save the next generation.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:00 pm

As much as I think the system needs some restructuring, at a certain point, each couple becomes responsible for their own future and should stop pointing fingers at parents or society. Even if you were young and dumb, even if u were "forced" into kollel life, after marriage, everyone grows up a little. Even if your parents are supporting, fully or partially, you learn how much life costs and hopefully you also learn pretty quickly how hard it is to carry the burden of parnassa while struggling with morning sickness or a colicky baby.
And that is the time to wake up and come up with an "exit strategy" for kollel, not when you have four kids, feel like a wrung out dishrag at the end of each day, and harbor years of resentment you can't acknowledge over doing what you feel should be at least partially dh's job. If you don't come up with a plan until you're desperate, it's your own fault, no one else's.
There aren't too many parents who can and do support forever. Most will give a rough estimate (five years . until you have 3 kids. Until younger sis gets married) so most ppl should not be shocked when parents pull the plug. Even if it happened earlier than you thought, you knew the day would come and should have a plan in place.

And life after kollel doesn't have to be so bleak. True, most yeshiva guys have zero training but that doesn't mean they can't go for s.t now. And though most men will start at jobs where they make significantly less per hour then their wife who is some sort of therapist, men have lots of advantages over women in the workplace, mainly the fact that each hour of work doesn't mean more money for a babysitter and another hour away from kids. Also, many "starter Jobs " have significant room for growth, which OT positions and playgroup morahs and the like do not.

To all those struggling with this transitional stage, take heart! It does get easier!

-Been there

amother

Bisque

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:00 pm

amother wrote:

OK, but until when do you feel your father should "support"? A year? 3 years? 5 years? forever? And what does support mean? For a family with several kids it probably takes a minimum of $10,000 a month to pay a mortgage, tuition, food, car, and other necessities. Did you expect a check for 10k a month permanently?

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:12 pm

I don't think my father should have forced me to marry a kollel boy. I wanted to marry a doctor or a lawyer but my parents wouldn't hear of it. I knew life can get expensive but my father kept on saying I'll buy you a huge house, I'll hug you a fancy car just marry a kollel boy.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:19 pm

so they promised support for life and then didn't give a penny?

Anyhow I understand your husband is working, are you guys not making enough to put food on your table and pay rent/utilities/target shoes clothing? If he is making enough for that then awesome you dont need tzedakah and can keep planning and working on getting to the lifestyle you would like.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:26 pm

amother wrote:

I hear ya that does sound off. And your poor husband who thought he was marrying someone who appreciated learning.

so I don't get it tho is he learning or working?

amother

Peach

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:29 pm

amother wrote:

That's all water under the bridge. How are you managing now? Will you give you children the option of making free choices about careers and marriage?

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:43 pm

Of course I will not do this to my kids. Why would I want to punish them?

amother

Peach

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:49 pm

amother wrote:

Of course I will not do this to my kids. Why would I want to punish them?

I say that because the social pressure will probably be rather difficult to ignore as some have mentioned in prior threads.

amother

Ruby

Sun, May 08 2016, 9:49 pm

Here's a slightly different angle to this issue.

I'm already part of the next generation - the children of the long term kollel families.

We've seen both the positive and negative effects of kollel, and there is no money to support us - not a penny. And we don't expect it.

We've been educated in Bais Yaakov for years and years about kollel, but this what I, and many of my peers, saw at home -

We saw that while our fathers were sitting in kollel, enjoying intellectual stimulation and acknowledgment, putting out seforim and giving shiurim, our mothers were silently and quietly working themselves to the bone and beyond, having babies year after year, not even allowing themselves to ask their husbands to help them bein hazmanim because of 'bitul Torah', not being allowed to receive recognition for their professional lives because women are supposed to only have jobs, not a career, being told time and time again through shiurim and articles and the entire system that their entire worth depended on their husband's learning, and that their many accomplishments were only worth something if it helped their husbands' learning.

Then their children grew up, and with all the praise about kollel, no one wanted to marry them, because there was no money to give in support. Our grandparents aren't exactly supporting us, you know.

Not just that, we know exactly how much sacrifice kollel entails - the times when there is just no money, no breathing space, the pressure, the tension, even if we did manage to wing it through the month, the stress definitely leaves an impact.

I did not want to marry a kollel boy. My parents were devastated. To tell you the honest truth, it was very hard for me to consider marrying someone who would work - it really was considered subpar in our family.

Bottom line is - this system is not sustainable. It can work for one generation, it might tenuously stretch itself thin to work for the next generation - but at a certain point, it snaps.

I think that instead of raising our children to think and believe that kollel is the standard, the norm, the ideal and the expected, we need to start talking about how to build Torah homes and families even without learning all day.

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