Vent: tznius at the pool

champion

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:43 am

HUH, I don't get why everyone is playing dumb suddenly.
Seriously, You really can't find it in you to understand op????
She was in a hotel on vacay. sounds like there are no seperate hours and the pool is in full view of all the vacationers.
Sounds like this obviously otherwise very frum lady who would not swim in such a pool was dressing in a way that was contritictary to everything else she lives for.
Common, have you never been disturbed by hipocrosy, Thats all op is venting about.
I HATE when somebody comes on to imamother to vent about hippocritical behavior, eveybody puts on their poker face and pretends not to get it.
end of rant...

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:43 am

amother wrote:

Ok ladies. I really have no problem with her swimming but I would have expected more from her to at least cover up better.
I guess I'm expecting too much.

The problem, I think, is that you are expecting anything. Every person does what they feel is correct for themselves. Thats it. The end of the story. Dont expect anything. Just let people live their lives.

amother

Purple

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:46 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Like I said in my op, this is vent! But I guess there's no venting allowed on this forum!!

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:49 am

If there's one thing I learned on imamother it's that different people have different standards. It's our job not to judge, but just to stick to our own standards and work on ourselves.

So you and your daughters swim only covered up? Guess what, I could see someone write the following post on imamother: I was on vacation and there was this obviously frum woman and her daughters swimming in the pool at the hotel. Could you imagine? Yeah, they were all wearing coverups, but it was not a pool with a mechitza or separate swimming hours.....any man could've passed by and seen them. Does she have no standards? What's wrong with her?

So you are fine with swimming in a public pool as long as you are covered. Others are not. This woman was fine with the way she was dressed while hanging out at the pool while men were swimming. You aren't okay with that. There are always gonna be people with different standards. If your husband and son were not okay with the woman being there dressed as she was, they should've left the pool area.

Jeanette

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:49 am

I'm actually pretty shocked that your husband and son were anywhere near the pool. Completely inappropriate!!! And why is the onus always on the woman to jump out whenever a man puts in an appearance, rather than the men skedaddling if there are women in the vicinity?

Just venting.

amother

Pink

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:53 am

amother wrote:

This is my issue: the lady is a chassidish woman from boro park or Williamsburg who would NEVER walk around not totally covered up YET at the hotel pool it was ok to expose your elbows, and knees in front of other men!

You can't really be busy with her own personal struggles.
Some opinions say that if you are dressed appropriately for the situation, then it is considered tznius, even with men: pants while skiing, bathing suit while swimming, etc.
Some opinions also say that if you are dressed fully tzniusdig a woman may swim with men in one pool; while others avoid it because of the slightest chance of pregnancy - yes it says something like that in the gemara regarding a hot tub and I just read an article in a science journal that said something similar as well but it's obviously extremely rare and I'm mentioning it in a hashkafic/halachic point of view. So some people may be fine being in something less than their daily garb at the pool, but not ok jumping in with it.

amother

Orange

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:53 am

amother wrote:

My husband and son were not in the pool just near it.

I dont get it. If youre so bothered by what your husband and son can see, why not limit your vacations to colonies and hotels with the same exact Tznius standards a yours?

Something tells me theres more to your story. Like maybe DH with roving eyes, etc.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:55 am

champion wrote:

Why is this hypocricy?

Many people who wear hats and stockings don't sign up for such a lifestyle. They passively put it on because that's what their mothers do and that's what society demands they do.

Levush doesn't mean anything. It's not like someone buys a shtreimel and says, "The reason I'm buying a shtreimel is to proclaim to the world that I believe abcdxyz in Yiddishkeit and that I do this and that."

The reason most people wear certain levush is because that's what their parents did and that's what societal convention demands, and if they didn't it would be scandalous and the talk of town. Simple as that.

Just because you're taking the wrong message from their levush, doesn't mean they are a hypocrite when they do something you wouldn't expect them to do based on the message you interpreted wrong.

champion

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:00 am

amother wrote:

I guess I would find this vent worthy as well.
The fact that some people "need" to act and look frummer than they are or want to be is frustrating to me.
I don't mean it in a personal way. I don't despise you as a person if you feel the need to do that. but on a colective society level I find that frustrating and hypocritical.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:05 am

amother wrote:

this is extremely sad. for so many different reasons.
I do not wear what I wear because my mother did the same. I wear what I wear because it is what I want to wear.
As an adult, I stand on my own two feet and I do so because I want to do xyz, not because of what my parents did and not because of what my community does. But because it is what I want to do.
I find it very sad that people are wearing certain clothing because it is expected of them and it is just what is done in the community. I feel like saying, if you dont believe in that way, why stay?

amother

Orange

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:06 am

amother wrote:

Ok never mind. I thought I'm allowed to vent here. Never again! Moving on....

Youre allowed to vent and others are allowed to speak their hearts and minds, in response.

Guaranteed there are things every one of us do, that raise someone's eyebrows.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:10 am

amother wrote:

Ok never mind. I thought I'm allowed to vent here. Never again! Moving on....

You expected the woman to act differently based solely on external factors and you're scandalized that she didn't.

You expected us all to commiserate with you and express our outrage too but we didn't and so you will never vent here again.

Hmmm... Shabbatiscoming was spot on about expectations...

Either way, please clarify: you really thought we would immediately chime in and passionately say, "You are so right! How dare people do differently than what you expect them to do! I suggest you call the Va'ad Hatzniyus and report this woman! Maybe also her daughters' school so they should know what a danger she is!"

What exactly were you expecting us to say?

DrMom

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:23 am

amother wrote:

This is just a vent as I know that nothing could be done at this point. I was at the pool in another state on a vacation. There was a frum lady at the pool. She would not swim with men or boys in the pool. Yet she had no problem walking around with short sleeves in front of my husband and older son. She also sat with her elbows and knees totally exposed at the pool in front of other men. How can someone always covers everything act like this.
I just don't get it. Why the double standard. Please explain it to me because it's really bothering me. Why is it ok to act differently when you are on vacation than when you are in Brooklyn???

Ok. Vent over. (but not feeling much better) Confused

I'm a little confused about he circumstances surrounding this incident.

Did you know this woman?

Were you on vacation at a frum place? I am asking because it seems that if here were non-frum people there, your DH and sons may have seen much more severe breaches of your tznius standrads than an exposed elbow... so why get so upset at this woman?

So she doesn't swim with men, but hold that short sleeves are okay. So what?

One may ask: Why were your DH and sons hanging out at a pool with women present anyway?

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:31 am

I'm a chassidish woman from williamsburg. I recently traveled to cancun and Wore a bathing while swimming in the pool with my husband and whoever else wanted to join. Just because I live my day to day life a certain way doesn't mean that I agree with all of its standards. There are so many other reasons one would choose to live a chassidish lifestyle. I don't owe you an explanation.
And if you'd truly be so pious you would not stay with your husband and son in a room directly facing a pool then have the nerve to complain about how a woman walks around in front of them.