Tricking School into Accepting Unvaxxed Kids

LittleDucky

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:57 pm

amother wrote:

Uh.. no! Like I said originally I will not waste my time sending you fact sheets and peer reviewed studies. You want proof, you look it up. I have done and I know this for a fact.

To the other mother claiming gardasil is somewhat controversial, really? On what scientific study do you base this? In the word of mothers who's children have had appalling reactions? Well correlation doesn't mean causation now does it? Gosh you pick and choose!

I was not picking and choosing. There are those out there that hold it is only necessary for s-xually active boys and girls and for those who will have more than one partner. I still hold it prevents diseases and is a good thing for those who get it.
Nothing to do with reactions or anything.

And if you want to cite "proofs" or facts- give sources and data. Enlighten us ...

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:38 pm

jkl wrote:

Hi all - I'm a fellow mom, nurse and new member to imamother. I've been following this thread with interest and have a few points as food for thought.

1 - What is the rush to bombard the infants with so many vaccines at such a young age? The rate of neurological development from 0-2 is extraordinary and the infants are extremely vulnerable during this stage. If herd immunity is present and the disease(s) is/are currently not prevalent, what's the rush? The chance of any negative reaction lessens with each passing stage.

2 - There have been many new vaccines introduced only in the last few years. It's impossible for the long term effects to be known at this time.

3 - It's a much better option to develop natural immunity to diseases that are not harmful for healthy youngsters (I.e. chickenpox). The chickenpox (and other similar) vaccines last about 10 years while natural immunity lasts a lifetime. While many adults do keep track of their vaccination schedule, there is an equal percentage NOT doing so. Having chicken pox as an adult carries significant consequences and is especially harmful to a fetus.

4 - For those concerned about the unvaccinated schoolchildren - Where is your concern and/or outrage about all those millions of illegal immigrants entering our country? The vast majority of them are NOT vaccinated and are now mingling in our society. While they may not be in our schools, they are in our malls, health care facilities, streets, amusement parks and public buildings. Many of them are actually in our employment and in our households. Are you keeping your children locked in your homes all day? (This is definitely an area of concern, but apparently our government seems to be turning a blind eye.)

I am not against vaccination at all, I actually am wholeheartedly in support of it. It is in my opinion though that the process needs an overhaul. Pushing this mass inoculation of every kind of disease to (mostly) uneducated parents has its consequences. I believe that the health care system needs to provide some more education and additional options. They should list which vaccines are absolutely mandatory, which ones are optional, allow for a broader timetable, provide actual statistic rates of injuries, etc.

Yes, I think more people who are on the fence about vaccinating or who decided not to do it at all would like to give some of the vaccines such as the polio vaccine and the tetanus shot, but not necessarily the hep b shot. The law is that you get all or nothing so instead, people who would choose to get some are getting none. The list of required vaccines is long and getting longer and obviously the research that is available is not enough to convince everyone that this whole list of vaccines are safe.

All the points you brought up make sense. We need more data, clarity, and answers to our questions regarding the vaccinations we are essentially being forced to give.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:46 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly. I'm sort of on the fence. I hear the arguments for anti vax but am not totally there myself. I am completely against Hep B, Chickenpox before puberty, Rotavirus and Hep A in the part of the country where it doesn't even exist. I'd consider MMR and Polio but my hands are tied because of the current laws so I'm stuck with religious exemption against all of them.

amother

Orange

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:51 pm

jkl wrote:

Hi all - I'm a fellow mom, nurse and new member to imamother. I've been following this thread with interest and have a few points as food for thought.

1 - What is the rush to bombard the infants with so many vaccines at such a young age? The rate of neurological development from 0-2 is extraordinary and the infants are extremely vulnerable during this stage. If herd immunity is present and the disease(s) is/are currently not prevalent, what's the rush? The chance of any negative reaction lessens with each passing stage.

Herd immunity WONT be present much longer if more people refuse to vax. If the kids will be in public, such as day cares, schools etc, then they should have all vaccinations.

2 - There have been many new vaccines introduced only in the last few years. It's impossible for the long term effects to be known at this time.

3 - It's a much better option to develop natural immunity to diseases that are not harmful for healthy youngsters (I.e. chickenpox). The chickenpox (and other similar) vaccines last about 10 years while natural immunity lasts a lifetime. While many adults do keep track of their vaccination schedule, there is an equal percentage NOT doing so. Having chicken pox as an adult carries significant consequences and is especially harmful to a fetus.
I actually got chickenpox a few times. Natural immunity isn't always lifelong.

4 - For those concerned about the unvaccinated schoolchildren - Where is your concern and/or outrage about all those millions of illegal immigrants entering our country? The vast majority of them are NOT vaccinated and are now mingling in our society. While they may not be in our schools, they are in our malls, health care facilities, streets, amusement parks and public buildings. Many of them are actually in our employment and in our households. Are you keeping your children locked in your homes all day? (This is definitely an area of concern, but apparently our government seems to be turning a blind eye.)

I am not against vaccination at all, I actually am wholeheartedly in support of it. It is in my opinion though that the process needs an overhaul. Pushing this mass inoculation of every kind of disease to (mostly) uneducated parents has its consequences. I believe that the health care system needs to provide some more education and additional options. They should list which vaccines are absolutely mandatory, which ones are optional, allow for a broader timetable, provide actual statistic rates of injuries, etc.

[b]

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 9:01 pm

amother wrote:

If it were a matter of giving even four or five vaccines, I think that many people would do it. To give 30-40 vaccines to a baby doesn't seem safe and some of the diseases are mild or very very unlikely. The list is getting out of hand and it's scary. I don't see why we need to be forced to give a vaccine for diseases that we aren't afraid of getting . I haven't found a good explanation for it.

jkl

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 9:06 pm

amother wrote:

[b]

Delaying vaccination until after 2 (or so) is not a refusal to vaccinate. Herd immunity still applies unless other factors are present. That said, vaccination and all its conditional factors should be considered by each parent and doctor on a case by case basis and not lumped together in a one size fits all.

Natural Chickenpox disease is considered to provide lifelong immunity for the disease. I don't know about your particular case, so I cannot comment on that. Check out this link:
http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-a......aspx

mille

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 8:01 pm

amother wrote:

The flu shot is optional across the board. Not everyone in the world is popping out babies by the dozen and many adults are not up to date. Even at a preconception appointment (which not everybody does), they check titers and recommend the shots you are not up to date on. They do not force you to get any vaccines and they will still see you for prenatal visits if you decide not to have them.

I never said they force vaccines, but the argument was that those of us who are adamantly pro-vaccination are "probably not up to date" on our shots... My point is, that's a stupid argument. Presumably the majority of us who are pro-vaccination would not randomly decline a booster when our physician indicates that we need one.

amother

Magenta

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 8:11 pm

amother wrote:

I don't understand this new idea that we all have to do something against our will for a tiny percentage of the population and a couple of exceptions who get chicken pox multiple times (definitely not the norm). If you're susceptible to getting chicken pox multiple times, you can go get the vaccine. Dont force everybody to get the vaccine to protect you from a usually harmless disease.

Once you have chicken pox, the virus (called zoster) stays in the body. If it reappears later in life (ie, becomes activated), it's known as shingles, although it's actually the same exact chicken pox virus, never left.

That's why anyone who had chicken pox can end up with shingles, years later. (That's where the shingles vaccine comes in handy)

Also a myth that chicken pox is harmless. It can have dangerous complications for kids, and is often dangerous for adults who are infected for the first time, as well.

jkl

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

Chicken Pox is mostly harmless for healthy youngsters. It's generally the immunocompromised youngsters that can develop the dangerous complications. Those are the ones that should be the recipients of the vaccines.

Chicken pox is quite dangerous for the adults but that is actually an argument AGAINST the vaccine. Natural chicken pox immunity would lead to lifelong immunity, while the vaccine only last for ten years. Many adults to not keep track of their immunizations records and would not revaccinate in a timely manner. The vaccine actually puts MORE adults at risk for acquiring chicken pox than a natural exposure to the disease.

amother

Coffee

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 9:08 pm

mille wrote:

How often do healthy adults go to the doctor for a check up? Most don't get terribly often at all. I'm guessing most women on here go when pregnant or for their pap smears. Obs don't routinely check titers (besides the ones checked in pregnancy).

amother

Magenta

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 9:37 pm

jkl wrote:

Chicken pox is quite dangerous for the adults but that is actually an argument AGAINST the vaccine. Natural chicken pox immunity would lead to lifelong immunity, while the vaccine only last for ten years. Many adults to not keep track of their immunizations records and would not revaccinate in a timely manner. The vaccine actually puts MORE adults at risk for acquiring chicken pox than a natural exposure to the disease.

This is circular reasoning. If everyone received the vaccine, the only risk to adults would be from unvaccinated children.

Again. If someone has had chicken pox, they are at a lifetime risk for shingles. Shingles is an extremely painful disease, can cause blindness, permanent pain, and other complications.

Whereas, if one has had the chickenpox vaccine, they are pretty much protected from ever developing shingles.

jkl

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 10:07 pm

Not only are immunocompromised kids at risk for serious chickenpox complications, so are: infants, pregnant women, teenagers, and adults. Complications include bacterial infections, sepsis, pneumonia, and death.

From the cdc website:
"Some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults. Many of the healthy adults who died from chickenpox contracted the disease from their unvaccinated children."

This is circular reasoning. If everyone received the vaccine, the only risk to adults would be from unvaccinated children.

----------------
Before the vaccine was instituted, chicken pox was a rite of passage for almost all children. The term unvaccinated adult did not exist. So the circular reasoning actual applies in reverse. If everyone (healthy youngsters) develops chicken pox as a child, the term "unvaccinated adults' for chicken pox is non-existent. There is natural immunity for all of the healthy population.

The argument for pregnant women, teenagers and adults falls away with the same response. If they had chicken pox earlier, they are in no risk at all. With the vaccine they actually have lifelong risks unless they meticulously follow an immunization schedule (which is fairly rare).

The complication rate for chicken pox is barely neglible. There is actually a strong ongoing debate about the chicken pox vaccine in the healthcare community. This benefits a minority of the population and puts at risk the majority.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Aug 29 2016, 10:47 pm

amother wrote:

Oh no don't tell me you just made an aveirah. You stated a lashon hara on me. For your information no I didn't just google like you I am actually a registered nurse with four years of university education, who read and owns 50 page report written and signed by rav Shlomo Kanievski and consigned by his bro rav Chaim Kanievski who paskened that schools cannot reject unvaxed kids since there are risks involved. I am also a mother who experienced having a child go through SEVERE vaccine side effect at age of 3 and I am also a friend to someone whose both kids had vaccine injuries and I am also a niece to a dead aunt who died at age of 20 due to anaphylaxis to a shot. Don't you dare talk back to antivax mom accusing her of basing her decision solemnly on Google.

Your aunt had an anaphylaxis reaction to a vaccine. My aunt had an anaphylaxis reaction to milk. Should I not drink milk???!!!

amother

Ivory

Tue, Aug 30 2016, 9:15 am

amother wrote:

Are you making fun of it. Shame on you. Every mother on this forum who is pro vaccine and making fun or attacking those who are against vaccines will only realize and understand when they personally will experience the negative effects of vaccinating.

Yes I am making fun of the fact that someone can say anaphylaxis reaction to something means something is unsafe. Anaphylaxis reaction is an extremely personal thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with the safety of vaccines. People have anaphylaxis reactions to milk, peanut butter, and pretty much anything that is completely harmless.

Again I'm not talking about side effects to vaccines. I'm talking about allergic reactions. Milk is a highly allergic food and is harmless for those that are not allergic to it.