Is Steve Bannon really anti-semitic?

ora_43

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 3:32 pm

sequoia wrote:

On the other hand... leftists have been telling us for years that anti-Zionist doesn't mean anti-Semitic. What if it goes both ways?

Yes, but leftists have been wrong for years about anti-Zionist not meaning anti-Semitic Wink

.

I do think it can go the other way. Eg white separatist types. If someone is pro-Israel and believes all American Jews should leave for Israel posthaste and leave America for the whites - yeah, that's a problem (can't say I've seen that particular view expressed, but I wouldn't be surprised, it's not so different from some of the "separate (countries) but equal" arguments I've seen).

chaiz

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 3:33 pm

marina wrote:

Can't comment on the anti-Semitic piece, but the police report pretty much convinced me that he tried to strangle his wife. Red marks on her neck and wrists, etc.

Dk if anyone cares, or if we're all just about anti-Semitism.

It is natural for people to think about themselves and their group before thinking about others.
But I do agree with you. This man is simply put not a mentch. To talk about the need to put him on a short leash just shows the absurdity. Especially in light of the fact that many were thinking that Trump himself would be put on a short leash by all the amazing people he would surround himself. I don't understand how anyone can say that this is normal in any way.

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 3:49 pm

sequoia wrote:

On the other hand... leftists have been telling us for years that anti-Zionist doesn't mean anti-Semitic. What if it goes both ways?

Not all criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Not all support of Palestinians is anti-semitic. But at least IMNSHO, BDS is largely anti-semitic. And any organization that tries to shut down Jewish (or Zionist, if you prefer) voices is anti-semitic.

rfeig613

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 3:57 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

There's no such thing as a PALESTINIAN. Newt Gingrich was right about that one. They have a country; it's called Jordan.

tryinghard

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 4:15 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Thank you again for telling me what I cannot possibly believe. Its so wonderful to have people like you telling me what I must and must not believe. I don't have two brain cells to rub together, and people like you are oh so helpful.

Too bad I never said "you cannot possibly believe"

I actually said

tryinghard wrote:

But if you read the article, you cannot possibly use that as evidence that Steve Bannon is anti-Semitic

And of course you are free in actuality to use anything you want as evidence of whatever you so choose. But in a logical argument about facts, what you said couldn't be used to support your argument. But hey, instead of reading what I actually wrote, feel free to just get offended that I'm telling you what to believe.

WhatFor

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 4:59 pm

First, to FF- I apologize if I was singling your post out. A bunch have slightly deviated but I think at this point, the thread is mostly centering around the significance of the alt- right, which is relevant to the impact of Steve Bannon in his position. Love your posts, generally!!!

Also, as to whether Steve Bannon's (purported) love for Israel is an indicator as to his affinity for Jews, I read this interesting article today:

http://forward.com/news/israel.....at-t/

MagentaYenta

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 6:46 pm

WhatFor wrote:

It takes a bit of understanding of born again Xtians to understand how some can be both pro Israel and antisemitic. For these believers of the rapture, tribulation and the end times Israel must exist to fulfill what they believe is biblical prophecy, their god's kingdom on earth. The salvation of those in the Christian Identity movement is dependent on the state of Israel, but not dependant on Jews themselves. In Revelations which is NT, all the Jews are killed off by their deity. CID takes this all literally. This compartmentalism is what allows them to be both antisemitic and pro Israel. And that is where the rubber meets the road. The CIM is part and parcel of the post/pre tribulation argument among mainstream Protestant sects and evangelicals.

Last edited by MagentaYenta on Tue, Nov 15 2016, 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

FranticFrummie

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 7:51 pm

Well, what shall we make of this?

https://www.algemeiner.com/201.....nner/

In a statement released on Monday, the ZOA said its “own experience and analysis of Breitbart articles confirms Mr. Bannon’s and Breitbart’s friendship and fair-mindedness towards Israel and the Jewish people. To accuse Mr. Bannon and Breitbart of antisemitism is Orwellian. In fact, Breitbart bravely fights against antisemitism.”

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 9:46 pm

rfeig613 wrote:

People don't realize that there are some prominent Jewish Alt-Right thinkers.

I think one of the most underrated and brilliant Jewish intellectuals is Rabbi Mayer Schiller. He's a fixture of the allegedly antisemitic American Renaissance organization. Professors Robert Weissbard, Paul Gottfried, Michael Levin, likewise are some of the biggest intellectuals in that movement. Jacob Neusner, a"h, the most prolific humanities scholar in history who translated the entire canon of rabbinic literature, was another intellectual stalwart of the paleoconservative/Alt-Right movement.

I'm not necessarily endorsing the bell curve as tenable social theory, but I think that to automatically equate white nationalism with antisemitism is intellectually sloppy and disingenuous. Honestly, have we benefited from Latinos, African Americans, and Muslims? Heavily entrenched antisemitic views are rare among whites and Asians, and very high among blacks and Latinos.

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....inos/

If you're calling R' Mayer Schiller alt-right, either I've got to redefine alt-right for myself, or see what he's been up to since The Road Back.

ls8747

Tue, Nov 15 2016, 11:43 pm

I think the question shouldn't be whether Bannon, personally, is anti-Semitic. We can't know. But through his website, he utilizes anti-Semitism to gain supporters. He also encourages racism and bigotry (should anti-Semitism be the only thing we care about? Or should we maybe also worry if he targets other groups, too? And if you only care about parochial reasons- Jews are never far behind, when that happens).

The alt-right is known for white supremacy, even if not every single one of its members is a white supremacist. Bannon has called Breitbart a "platform for the alt-right." He knows what that means. He is also credited with the ending salvos of the Trump campaign that suggested an international financial conspiracy controlled the government. That, historically, has always meant Jews. He knows that, too. And he has also acknowledged using hate as a tool, saying, "“Let the grassroots turn on the hate because that’s the ONLY thing that will make them do their duty.”

As far as being pro-Israel: Yes, you can be pro Israel because you believe all Jews should live in Israel, not America. That has been a part of anti-Semitism throughout history.

rfeig613

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 12:34 am

PinkFridge wrote:

If you're calling R' Mayer Schiller alt-right, either I've got to redefine alt-right for myself, or see what he's been up to since The Road Back.

For years, he's argued that Jews are part of White America and should see themselves aligned with those interests. He has a bunch of articles on American Renaissance.

Not that I'm necessarily endorsing those views, but I don't think it's correct to equate anti-semitism with people who are concerned about racial issues.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 12:41 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

But those people have nothing to do with the alt-right. To the extent that the alt-right has an actual ideology (and not just an affinity for juvenile humor and the word "cuck"), it's basically a reaction to the republican party swinging too far Christian. The alt right is irreligious, irreverent, and focused on security and the economy. Breitbart defends Christianity, but it doesn't promote it.

If Breitbart and the alt-right are anti-Semitic despite being Zionist, it's nothing to do with the born-again Christian model.

DrMom

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 12:54 am

ls8747 wrote:

As far as being pro-Israel: Yes, you can be pro Israel because you believe all Jews should live in Israel, not America. That has been a part of anti-Semitism throughout history.

You can also believe this because you are a Zionist. Are Zionists anti-Semitic?

And if every pro-Israel news editor is going to be accused of being an anti-Semite, we might as well stop using the term because it will be rendered meaningless.

BTW, I do not know that Steve Bannon expressed the belief that all Jews should leave America/wherever and move to Israel. Do you?

ora_43

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 4:26 am

rfeig613 wrote:

There's no such thing as a PALESTINIAN. Newt Gingrich was right about that one. They have a country; it's called Jordan.

By that criteria, there's no such thing as most modern nationalities. We have to deal with the situation today, not the situation as it was in 1950.

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 6:43 am

DrMom wrote:

DrMom, what has happened to your ability to reason rationally? ls8747 is not saying that all those who are pro-Israel are anti-Semite. She is saying that just because one is pro-Israel, that doesn't mean that one is not an anti-Semite. That is, there are some pro-Israel people who are also anti-Semites.

/Logic 101

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 6:51 am

I also find Fox's contention that Breitbart's hateful (misogynist, anti-Muslim, racist) posts are ironic to be unbelievable. She has nothing to back it up, except for a very weak attempt to compare these third-rate writers to Jonathan Switft.

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 7:06 am

rfeig613, which Michael Levin are we talking about? The professor from CCNY who is openly racist and misogynistic? I took several classes with him, because if you were wanted to study logic at CCNY, you had to, and I was witness to his insane rants. And I suffered from his misogyny. There was no way he could not give me As, due to the fact that I carefully documented all my work, and called him on it whenever he tried to deduct points that weren't warranted, but being in class was a truly miserable, unpleasant experience due to his constant barbs, attempts to trip women up, and nastiness. is that who we're talking about?

Also, I have my doubts about Jacob Neusner, a"H, being a member of the alt-right: what evidence do you have for this claim?

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Nov 16 2016, 7:07 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

What we shall make of this is that the ZOA is being remarkably short-sighted in sidling up to an enemy.