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amother
Yellow
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 Wed, Jan 18 2017, 5:24 pm
| amother wrote: | | I don't see the beauty in it. Trust me, no one is getting better because some women cut an inch off their sheitels. It's useless, and all it does is foster unhealthy obsession and guilt with tznius rules. I am not impressed. |
AGREED!
It's superstition to me.
It's obsession over women's bodies and how they dress.
It's controlling and misogynistic.
And it disgusts me!
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Notsobusy
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 5:29 pm
| cozyblanket wrote: | Every additional level of tznius is a zechus. Even if you were l'halacha beforehand, additional stringencies are a zechus for the choleh.
I am NOT saying everyone needs skirts 5" below the knee and turtlenecks, but it is a chumrah that can bring bracha if done the right way. If it is done for kavod or to look better or other wrong reasons, it will NOT bring bracha - of course.
Why do other people having chumros bother you?
I hate turtle necks, but I don't mind other ppl doing it. |
Other people having chumros doesn't bother me, it's when they try to convince everyone else that their way is the right way that bothers me.
Edited because I didn't mean it how I wrote it.
Just because something is more, doesn't mean that it's better. And if it's not better then I don't see how it would bring a brocha. Some chumros are true chumros and I can see how they would make Hshem happy. But if it's just made up nonsense, that's not a chumrah.
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amother
Silver
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 5:45 pm
Cutting sheitels shorter doesn't bother me at all.
I've heard that because hair is something that some sick people lose it may be appropriate to take on an extra stringency with hair. In our family we were advised everyone should take something on, some covered more, some cut, some dyed their part, but we were told it was a nice thing to do (plus we split up tehilim and learned a specific sefer together - every action we do counts as a zechus).
I don't think the target of the campaign is those with short or medium length sheitels.
I think saying cutting 1 inch at a time isn't 'nothing'. For some people it is a big thing and small actions count just as much as big actions depending on the meaning to a person.
I have seen sheitels that I don't think are tzinius, obviously everyone has their own measuring stick, but sometimes you just see a wig and it just feels so wrong - and I don't wear short at all. I don't think there is anything wrong with looking pretty, but there is a fine line between pretty and too much.
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livinginflatbus
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 6:22 pm
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I think there is no one right way for everyone . For some it might be cutting their sheital for others covering their knees more . I think the mishpacha serial is nice but I don't really see the point . Everyone has to do what works for them
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amother
Gray
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 6:26 pm
| amother wrote: | | I need to chime in here. What is not tznius about looking pretty? A long nice sheitel is pretty, not provocative. Is it more tznius to wear last year's style clothing that doesn't fit you and no jewelry and makeup. I don't get it. I know everyone talks about it but I don't understand. |
I am not really understanding this post. Firstly, some long sheitels may just be pretty, but you must have seen some sheitels (both long ones and short ones) that are provocative.
Secondly, are you saying women only look pretty if they wear this year's style??? Many people still fit in the same clothing they fit in last year and I fail to understand why clothing that was pretty last year is no longer pretty this year. Most people I know cannot afford to buy a new wardrobe every year.
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mummiedearest
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 6:36 pm
immediate reaction to this thread title: a copy of mishpacha magazine wielding a knife and chasing sheitel-wearers.
I don't read any of these magazines, but I'm kinda tired of hearing the word "attack" regarding differences of opinion. let's face it, we all have opinions. stating them does not equal attacking people who hold differing opinions.
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cozyblanket
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 6:49 pm
| mummiedearest wrote: | immediate reaction to this thread title: a copy of mishpacha magazine wielding a knife and chasing sheitel-wearers.
I don't read any of these magazines, but I'm kinda tired of hearing the word "attack" regarding differences of opinion. let's face it, we all have opinions. stating them does not equal attacking people who hold differing opinions. |
Totally agree. The media has distorted the meaning of so many English words! And it has seeped into our vernacular too.
I also didn't read any of the articles bc I only get back issues of these magazines from neighbors - but printing an alternate point of view is not an attack on the people who don't hold that opinion. But, like I said, I didn't actually read it.
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amother
Beige
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 6:55 pm
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Beauty is as beauty does. What matters is what's UNDER the hair covering!
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going-up
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 7:19 pm
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Wearing is spelt wearing. You don't have to agree with every opinion you read. Think for yourself, Hashem gave us our minds to process all information we are given, research further and then act accordingly. One persons' opinion is just that and an intresting read to see that not everyone's mind contains the same thing that's in our own minds.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:10 pm
| cozyblanket wrote: | Totally agree. The media has distorted the meaning of so many English words! And it has seeped into our vernacular too.
I also didn't read any of the articles bc I only get back issues of these magazines from neighbors - but printing an alternate point of view is not an attack on the people who don't hold that opinion. But, like I said, I didn't actually read it. |
I think the word attack is actually quite appropriate to describe the article- as in it repeatedly made degrading and disparaging statements about shaitel wearers. (See above references example of attracting neighbor's husband)
I have read beautiful articles about tichels, this was not one of them
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amother
Chocolate
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:13 pm
| glutenless wrote: | Other people having chumros doesn't bother me, it's when they try to convince everyone else that their way is the right way that bothers me.
Edited because I didn't mean it how I wrote it.
Just because something is more, doesn't mean that it's better. And if it's not better then I don't see how it would bring a brocha. Some chumros are true chumros and I can see how they would make Hshem happy. But if it's just made up nonsense, that's not a chumrah. |
ITA. From here, it's just a short line to burkas...
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amother
Copper
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Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:14 pm
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It's just a fact that many sheitals these days are sexier and more provacative than a tichel or even regular hair. Skirts are often sexier than pants as well.
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amother
Amethyst
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:32 am
| amother wrote: | | I don't see the beauty in it. Trust me, no one is getting better because some women cut an inch off their sheitels. It's useless, and all it does is foster unhealthy obsession and guilt with tznius rules. I am not impressed. |
I prefer to place my trust in G-d.
I know of many stories where women took on to do something small in tznius and saw yeshuos from it.
And even if they don't see it clearly, I guarantee you they are getting a zechus for it up there.
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ilovehashem2
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:33 am
in my opinion this topic is an ongonig topic. it can start from sheitels, to long sheitels, to snoods, to which snood, to american head coverings, to mea sherim ladies, to to to to and basically every woman should know where shes holding on her personal level with her yidishkeit. and each woman on her own can do her avodas hashem on her level.
but it is nice though to read about other womens growth, it also makes me rethink and touch base again with what im doing etc... but that does not mean, these magazines are imposing there views.....
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watergirl
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:59 am
| amother wrote: | Something that struck me so funny about the family first article.
She wrote that on the one day that she put her wig back on, suddenly Mr. Klien, her neighbor, whose wife had put on a tichel recently, suddenly showed an interest in her  .
I have a wonderful solution to that issue......
TELL MR KLEIN'S WIFE TO PUT HER SHEITEL BACK ON!!!!!
Besides, there was hardly mention of these women's husbands, and something about this movement reminded me a little of the shawl wearers who put them on despite their husband's not wanting them to do so. |
Hey anon amother who is hiding while you jump on a HUGE group of women who prefer tichels to sheitels. Did you just compare us to the Burqua ladies? We remind you of them? What role did her husband have in the story? It was about her journey to finding menuchas hanefesh in her kisui rosh! For MANY of us, sheitels caused TREMENDOUS agamas nefesh! The discomfort physically when its doesnt fit right on our heads, and the emotional discomfort if it doesnt fit right with our thoughts. Emotionally hard to walk into a room with a wig thats recognizably less expensive than all the others in the room. YES, with wigs these days, the WIG is the first thing that people notice. I know its the same with a tichel - its also the first thing you notice. But I for one, was so uncomfortable with the way that people could take one look at you and know that you spend $$$ in that wig. Or in my case, $. So after many years of crying and throwing sheitel tantrums, my husband was THRILLED to see me cover my hair with joy!
And did you even read the story in mishpacha? Where do you get the idea that the writer's husband, or any of our husbands for that matter dont want us to wear tichels? So she didnt give him a voice in HER story. Doesnt mean that he had no voice. Its inferred in her story that he had no issue with it, if he did, she would not have left that juicy detail out.
And so what if some of our rabbis feel this is the preferred way to cover hair? Some rabbis prefer wigs! So find a rabbi who's hashkafa matches your own and move on.
Like I said upthread, for me, it was a breath of fresh air to see myself reflected in the pages of the magazine for once. Do you ever notice that in the serial stories, the women always stop in front of a mirror to adjust her "perfectly coiffed sheitel" or brush her sheitel bangs out of her eyes? The authors always write their characters in wigs. Where are we? Where are the tichel ladies? Hiding in our hippy dippy drum circles? Or like you assume, hiding in the kitchen with our shawls on? All in black?
This mitzvah for me is FINALLY JOYFUL. After covering my hair for many years, I have finally found a way for my inside to match my outside and not to loose myself in a wig.
Lets pretend that I was going against my husbands desire by wearing tichels (I'm, not, BH!). Is it his right to tell me to change it? Would any woman tell me to cover my hair in a way that I find uncomfortable and distasteful to please my husband? I dont think that would happen! Maybe people would suggest a compromise. Speak to a rabbi. Whatever. But I think that women would tell another woman to please herself as long as its tznius and halachically acceptable!
Signed, a proud wrapper who wears my crown proudly (in a non jewish office btw).
PS - my daughter, 13, came up to me recently and asked "Mommy, is wearing a tichel as much fun as it looks?" GRAND SLAM! She sees me doing a difficult mitzvah AND making it look like its fun (IT IS!). When else do you hear about a teenager commenting so positively about tznius?!
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mummiedearest
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:45 am
| amother wrote: | I think the word attack is actually quite appropriate to describe the article- as in it repeatedly made degrading and disparaging statements about shaitel wearers. (See above references example of attracting neighbor's husband)
I have read beautiful articles about tichels, this was not one of them |
again, haven't read it, but attack really is a strong word.
non-sheitel wearers have been perceived as less religious for years, with lots of negative things said. I still wouldn't call it an attack. calling one mishpacha article (or even a series of them) attacks is really giving them more weight than they'd have if the readers read it with less emotional investment.
might I mention that serials in these types of magazines have always overdramatized any behavior they saw as negative? take it in stride and move on.
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mummiedearest
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:49 am
| amother wrote: | Something that struck me so funny about the family first article.
She wrote that on the one day that she put her wig back on, suddenly Mr. Klien, her neighbor, whose wife had put on a tichel recently, suddenly showed an interest in her .
I have a wonderful solution to that issue......
TELL MR KLEIN'S WIFE TO PUT HER SHEITEL BACK ON!!!!!
Besides, there was hardly mention of these women's husbands, and something about this movement reminded me a little of the shawl wearers who put them on despite their husband's not wanting them to do so. |
actually, tell mr. klein to stop being a creep. I can assure you, the wig is not responsible for the flirting. any discussion comparing hair coverings based on this scenario is ridiculous. a man who chooses to flirt with a woman who is not his wife is making a conscious decision to do so. he is responsible for it, not the head coverings of his wife and neighbor.
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Notsobusy
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:52 am
| watergirl wrote: | Hey anon amother who is hiding while you jump on a HUGE group of women who prefer tichels to sheitels. Did you just compare us to the Burqua ladies? We remind you of them? What role did her husband have in the story? It was about her journey to finding menuchas hanefesh in her kisui rosh! For MANY of us, sheitels caused TREMENDOUS agamas nefesh! The discomfort physically when its doesnt fit right on our heads, and the emotional discomfort if it doesnt fit right with our thoughts. Emotionally hard to walk into a room with a wig thats recognizably less expensive than all the others in the room. YES, with wigs these days, the WIG is the first thing that people notice. I know its the same with a tichel - its also the first thing you notice. But I for one, was so uncomfortable with the way that people could take one look at you and know that you spend $$$ in that wig. Or in my case, $. So after many years of crying and throwing sheitel tantrums, my husband was THRILLED to see me cover my hair with joy!
And did you even read the story in mishpacha? Where do you get the idea that the writer's husband, or any of our husbands for that matter dont want us to wear tichels? So she didnt give him a voice in HER story. Doesnt mean that he had no voice. Its inferred in her story that he had no issue with it, if he did, she would not have left that juicy detail out.
And so what if some of our rabbis feel this is the preferred way to cover hair? Some rabbis prefer wigs! So find a rabbi who's hashkafa matches your own and move on.
Like I said upthread, for me, it was a breath of fresh air to see myself reflected in the pages of the magazine for once. Do you ever notice that in the serial stories, the women always stop in front of a mirror to adjust her "perfectly coiffed sheitel" or brush her sheitel bangs out of her eyes? The authors always write their characters in wigs. Where are we? Where are the tichel ladies? Hiding in our hippy dippy drum circles? Or like you assume, hiding in the kitchen with our shawls on? All in black?
This mitzvah for me is FINALLY JOYFUL. After covering my hair for many years, I have finally found a way for my inside to match my outside and not to loose myself in a wig.
Lets pretend that I was going against my husbands desire by wearing tichels (I'm, not, BH!). Is it his right to tell me to change it? Would any woman tell me to cover my hair in a way that I find uncomfortable and distasteful to please my husband? I dont think that would happen! Maybe people would suggest a compromise. Speak to a rabbi. Whatever. But I think that women would tell another woman to please herself as long as its tznius and halachically acceptable!
Signed, a proud wrapper who wears my crown proudly (in a non jewish office btw).
PS - my daughter, 13, came up to me recently and asked "Mommy, is wearing a tichel as much fun as it looks?" GRAND SLAM! She sees me doing a difficult mitzvah AND making it look like its fun (IT IS!). When else do you hear about a teenager commenting so positively about tznius?! |
Watergirl, I respect you for making the decision you feel is right for you. My problem with the article was the way she portrays sheitel wearers, and the way she talks about her community, maybe they are a bunch of shallow, mean women, but I highly doubt it. Especially the way she wrote about "Mr Klein", that was just really disturbing to me.
I have nothing wrong with you or anyone else making the decision for yourself that tichels are better for you. Just don't make it sound like "everyone else" is not tznius, shallow and mean.
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watergirl
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:56 am
| glutenless wrote: | Watergirl, I respect you for making the decision you feel is right for you. My problem with the article was the way she portrays sheitel wearers, and the way she talks about her community, maybe they are a bunch of shallow, mean women, but I highly doubt it. Especially the way she wrote about "Mr Klein", that was just really disturbing to me.
I have nothing wrong with you or anyone else making the decision for yourself that tichels are better for you. Just don't make it sound like "everyone else" is not tznius, shallow and mean. |
I agree with you. I almost imagined that writer to be like the girls fresh off the boat from seminary. So into it and green that everyone else is off - I dont agree with her stance - just saying how her voice sounded to me. I still maintain that reading about tichels for once was a breath of fresh air after only sheitels for ever. It could have been toned down - but thats her voice, apparently not a finctional character. So we can disagree with her and her voice, but lets not hate on tichel ladies (not that you did) or compare us to berqua ladies like that amother who I was initially reacting to. That was uncalled for.
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amother
Aubergine
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Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:06 am
Watergirl, I want to apologize if you saw my post as being negative to all tichel wearers. I absolutely did not mean it that way.
I was specifically talking about the tone of this writer and her group of friends.
I have nothing against the concept of one wearing a tichel. Kol Hakavod to you!
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