Toms River/Jackson

MagentaYenta

Tue, Feb 14 2017, 10:47 pm

amother wrote:

Why is it so bad for the Lakewood area stay the way it is?

The dynamics of the city of Lakewood have been changing since 1943. Lkwd was still a sleepy burg in '60s when there were only 200 students at BMG. Growth and expansion accelerated at an amazing rate in later years. Development is virtually unrestricted. To think it will stay the way it is now in 2017 or the way it was in 1985 is unrealistic.

With the metro NYC area becoming too expensive for many Lkwd is now a destination. As Lkwd pushes beyond it's urban boundaries, it's only natural that the enclave will expand into Jackson and Toms River and beyond as long as housing demands are being met. With housing comes new schools etc and the cycle continues.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Feb 14 2017, 10:47 pm

I have to say I take offense to the labeling just from these comments alone. Most women do wear long wigs (look at all the people who do wigs on Instagram and see their customers from lakewood). Nail polish is not bummy either. I dont understand who makes these standards? It seems very fake and shallow. I am no slut. I wear a nice wig but it is classy.I dress in a classy and tasteful way. I just dont see us going into such a labeling and judgmental place where externals are what make u "frum."

amother

Seashell

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 12:40 am

I have to agree with the other Lakewood posters. Not wearing socks in the summer is considered modern here. I dont live in Yeshiva area. Most men in my neighborhood work, but the women wear light color or no nail polish, and go to tznius learning groups. Even primary girls and up wear knee socks, and cover elbows etc. TV is defintely unaccepted in my development. I dont think any neighbor would let their kids play in my house if I had one. The schools dont even ask about them, as they assume you would never have one. They do make you get an isshur that your internet is filtered though.
You may have more people like you in Toms River, who you are comfortable with. I do warn you that you may need to conform a bit if you want to get into the schools here. Many of the schools (not only the very Yeshivish ones) give a list of Tznius rules for the mothers. Some even require that it is signed!

amother

Turquoise

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 1:12 am

op - Lakewood is not like other places. Actually yes, if you have a tv, even in Jackson and TR, you are setting your children up for a long 13 years of schooling. Having a tv and not wearing socks or stockings is outside the mainstream here.

Its not simple for your children if your family is so different from the school and most of the other children.

As far as schools opening. Would you want to send to a new school where you live? The same issues (funding, experience....) apply here.

allthingsblue

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 7:51 am

amother wrote:

That's what you'll have to deal with of you come to Lakewood.
I myself wear a long wig (though I'm thinking of getting a short, trendy cut- compromise between tznius and fashion!), and bright colored nail polish if I ever have time for a mani. I wear colorful clothing, supercool sneakers, Jean skirts. (I do wear tights in the summer though- husband's preferance.) I am not judging you- I'm just telling you what you'll face if you move here!
Both are parents are from Lakewood, which is why we live here. And we b"H have "pull" into schools (although it's all up to G-d) so I'm not concerned about that.
We don't have a TV though. If you have tv and your kids talk about it etc, that's really not common in Lakewood. Some people hide their tv in their bedroom Very Happy

or just watch Netflix or whatever.

L K

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:05 am

amother wrote:

Op I'm sorry if you've been offended by some of the comments here.

Don't worry; there are plenty of families like yours in Lakewood and its surrounding areas. You might be most comfortable in Tom's River. It's attracting families that sound just like yours.

You would fit right in at YTT. Sorry; I'm not familiar enough with girls schools to help you there.

Best of luck making your decision.

Ahm, Ytt definitely does not allow tvs.
I as a parent would be quite upset if someone lied to school and got in while having tv in the home.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:16 am

L K wrote:

Ahm, Ytt definitely does not allow tvs.
I as a parent would be quite upset if someone lied to school and got in while having tv in the home.

You are on imamother so u must have internet. Gasp. We have a Tv so my husband can watch sports on it and I watch the news. My kids dont even watch it. We have netflix though is that more kosher bec its only internet? Having a TV does Not make one person less frum than someone who has internet. The thinking by you is so incredibly narrow minded and all based on the "norms." If you branch out a bit and come to different communities you will see how skewed ur thinking is. I personally have never ever had this judgement in Far Rockaway which has plenty of very frum people.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:16 am

amother wrote:

I also live in FR and I know many women who do not wear long wigs or dark nail polish. I am also surprised that you say having a TV is standard - I know many families who send to TAG and don't have a TV. I am not commenting on whether these standards are reasonable, just that I think your generalizations are somewhat inaccurate.

allthingsblue

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:19 am

amother wrote:

You are taking this very personally. It seems you'd be best off staying where you are.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

I have no idea what is "standard" thats exactly my point. Theres no one judging us in FR- oh if they hae a TV they are modern. Thats not the way I was raised at all. Thats not what TAG is emphasizing. No one really cares about things like that people care about the family-
Are they nice
Do they daven in same shul crowd
Do we have shared friends

Theres no stereotyping abt frum externals. Its ridiculous honestly as someone looking in

allthingsblue

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:34 am

amother wrote:

It may or may not be ridiculous, but point is, Lakewood is like that. And if you live in Jackson or toms river, you will need Lakewood for many things, schools among them. Be warned before you make any decisions.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:42 am

Perhaps I can be of help and say it as it is. Sounds like we are similar "type".

In Lakewood there are many people (excluding very yeshivish) who watch movies or tv shows, but they do so on Netflix or the like. TV is taboo going back to the old Lakewood when if someone had a tv they had to hide it well. Now it's easy for everyone to watch tv without actually having a tv. Personally it's one big eye roll to me, and yes I have a tv. So there are a few schools where most kids watch, but if you officially have a tv, you need to keep it quiet. Most of my friends don't actually own TVs even though they watch even more than I do. So like most cultures there are unwritten rules and it helps to kind of get it before you move in.

Everyone I know who is not very yeshivish wears dark nail polish. But they might think twice before wearing it to a school function. Long wigs is a step below - many wear to school functions but the schools don't love it so it's always safe to wear something more moderate (think long but not very long). I find I'm still able to feel completely myself, just pick out the more conservative clothes from my closet.

I have been here longer than most posters and have a lot of friends who are that type. I actually have friends of all types and am accepted for whom I am. However, I do know that among some gossipy judgy circles id probably be called modern. Who cares. I've also met many wonderful very yeshivish people who have welcomed me into their lives.

Yes many people stare and judge and it sucks, but if you stick around your neighborhood and avoid certain places you'll probably rarely even encounter these people.

Maybe it's just me but I've really learned how to avoid most of the negative parts of living in Lakewood. Moving to Jackson was a breath of fresh air. But now and then when I have to go into the heart of Lakewood, I do sometimes feel like I can't breathe.

There are schools you will fit into, as long as you're not in that ridiculous frame of mind to go to a "top" school. Top in Lakewood means very yeshivish, and the more rules the better. To me, "top" means nice frum people who don't try to fit your kid into a tiny little box and who respect you.

To summarize:

If you have a tv, your kids and their friends will likely be watching the same, but don't call it a tv.

Dress a bit more conservatively for school functions.

Keep an open mind and you'll find some wonderful people, and you'll also find many judgmental people... but that doesn't mean you won't fit in.

However, most importantly, make sure your kids have a school before moving here.

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 9:39 am

L K wrote:

Ahm, Ytt definitely does not allow tvs.
I as a parent would be quite upset if someone lied to school and got in while having tv in the home.

I have a relative who moved to the Monsey area some years ago, and her family had really been moving to the right and they decided to ditch their TV. She signed truthfully and sends her boys to a certain JPF/yeshivish type of school that has a no-TV rule, and they fit in there quite well.

So she was surprised when friends of hers decided to send there too, though they most definitely have a TV...she asked them about it and friend said that they put it out on the driveway the day of registration.

To be perfectly honest, it bothers me plenty. I wonder whether that kind of honesty will be acceptable upstairs after 120......but I know people in some of Lakewood's most yeshivish schools who have TV's, at least the parents do in their bedroom. Not sure how that works out.....

I see long sheitels at BF orientation and PTA.

And I see people wearing dark nail polish around town. Just the other day I saw a woman in a sheitel wearing a dress over jeans. I should've asked her where she sends her kids to school!

So though I don't think it will be easy for OP if she moves here, and getting her kids into school can be a nightmare now and in the future....there definitely are people like her in this community.

L K

Wed, Feb 15 2017, 9:50 am

amother wrote:

What's the gasp about?
I have internet, with the schools knowledge.
Now you can stop gasping.

Your comment about broadening my horizons is off mark. I'm a bt who grew up overseas, not in a Jewish community, and know fully well what a tv is. Thankyouverymuch. I've also lived outside of lakewood. Oh, and for the record I'm not yeshivish.

ETA regarding "norms":

There are some unspoken rules and norms in every community (even if you don't officially identify with it) as long as you choose to interact with others on a certain level. I believe it's everyone's responsibility not to deliberately expose others' kids to influences and experiences you know their parents may object to.
The same way I don't give my nephew as much nosh as I give my kids, because my sister holds differently.
The same way I expect other parents in lakewood not to offer my kids cholov stam, no matter what they themselves eat.
The same way that I ask parents before a play date if their kids are allergic to nuts etc. it's common sense to follow other parents norms to a certain extent.

I had a story with a neighbor before.
I was quite annoyed when my former yeshivish neighbors exposed my kids to computer games on a tablet, without having asked my opinion. Then discussing this with another ultra-yeshivish friend/neighbor, a second neighbor claimed gameboys are universally accepted.
I thought that maybe being an outsider, I wasn't aware of that fact, so consulted with another friend/neighbor who knows very well about this community and many others. She was more "with-it", normal and out-of-townish (whatever Jose terms mean). She was appalled and reassured me that in her opinion things like computer games, videos (Jewish ones of course) etc. must be run by parents before you show them to somebody's else's child.