For those who make their daughter wear tights after age 3

33055

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 1:11 am

gold21 wrote:

TV watching is modern? I dunno. I mean, I personally don't have a TV, but that's a crazy generalization. C'mon, tons of chassidish families have hidden TVs.

Ateres has some troubled students? I'm sorry to hear that. How is that relevant?

And... Leggings does not mark someone as modern. You sound so out of touch, it's a little scary.

Do you at least agree that we are measuring by externals when we set school criteria? We can't measure inside, but we can draw inferences by shuls attended and clothing warn, etc.

A hidden TV, hidden internet, a hidden license for the mom, hidden treif can't define anyone because it is hidden. We can suspect, but we can never assume.

Perhaps leggings don't mark one as modern I your community, but they do in others. Long skirts also mark folks as modern as do close beards. I personally have nothing against leggings. I wouldn't wear them outside because they make a certain statement in this community. Walk into certain areas with your leggings and your legs showing, and I guarantee you will be thought of as modern.

What is modern? How do you define modern? This might be the crux of the issue.

gold21

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 1:22 am

Squishy wrote:

I didn't know that about long skirts or close beards. Good to know Wink

I guess modern to me is like Modern Orthodox.

A hidden license for the mom LOL

Love that one!

OMG It's 1:30 in the morning!!!! What are we doing up??

Last edited by gold21 on Sun, Feb 26 2017, 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total

33055

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 1:34 am

gold21 wrote:

I didn't know that about long skirts or close beards. Good to know Wink

I guess modern to me is like Modern Orthodox.

A hidden license for the mom LOL

Love that one! So since I openly drive am I considered modern where you live? I think just about all YSV moms drive by the way, including the female staff.

The lack of a TV may disqualify you from being modern. Wink

BTW, it is only certain chassidish that don't drive. You know there are a certain few chassidish men also won't drive either?

I think there are some female staff that don't drive at YSV. I also think they started giving scholarships to rebbish families about 6 - 8 years ago. Those kids were kept together in a separate class. I don't know if all those moms drive. More questions for Mrs. Kokish.

But of the main stream kids, I would agree that all or just about all the moms drive.

gold21

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 2:12 am

OK so now I'm back again (someone else texted me lol)

Interviews are conducted by Rabbi Frankel, not by Mrs Kokis (not Kokish), even for the girls division

Leggings are not asked about

Leggings are not allowed in the school building (no gym wear in Makom Torah) but there is no rule against parents wearing leggings on their own time

The Rebbe class, which doesn't really exist anymore the way it used to, is yeshivish, not chassidish, so the mothers do drive

Hope that helps

33055

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 8:58 am

gold21 wrote:

OK so now I'm back again (someone else texted me lol)

Interviews are conducted by Rabbi Frankel, not by Mrs Kokis (even for the girls division)

Leggings are not asked about

Leggings are not allowed in the school building (no gym wear in Makom Torah) but there is no rule against parents wearing leggings on their own time

The Rebbe class is yeshivish, not chassidish, so the mothers do drive

Hope that helps

Sometimes Mrs Frankel and the English Principal interview for hours and Rabbi Frankel rubber stamps. It makes sense that if Rabbi Frankel was the main interviewer he would not ask about the mother's tznius. I was never asked by a male Rabbi anything about my tznius.

Again, just because it is done one way doesn't mean that it is not done other ways. If there is a concern, she will address it in the interview. The concern could just be because of who recommended the person. You can't say the way something happened to your sister-in-law means that it happens that way to everyone.

BTW, does your sister in law have boys?

YSV is widely considered to have the best secular education that is still acceptable hashkofically. Ashar and Hebrew Academy offer a better education, but are not perceived as frum enough to be acceptable to the bulk of main stream Monsey as they have mixed campuses. We don't even need to discuss leggings. Wink

YSV has modern people that send there. I was told by someone high up in admin the rebbish classes were to bring the school more to the right. They filled up one class with rebbish who can get in lots of other schools at the expense of those they perceive as less desirable.

IMO, modern people area getting choked out. I can name a dozen shuls nearby, and there is not one that is modern. I don't know anyone who lives in my area who wears leggings. And it wasn't that way a decade ago. If someone wears leggings, they would be more comfortable in Pamona.

gold21

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 9:18 am

Squishy wrote:

It's not my sister in law.

That's the way it's done in YSV- Rabbi Frankel interviews. That's a fact. Maybe the people you know that interviewed had some issue that made them subject to stricter interrogation.

"Still acceptable hashkafically"- still acceptable by whom?? By you? Come on now. Haha.

YSV is a great school. More than just acceptable. People who send to YSV aren't concerned about what chassidim think of their hashkafos.

gold21

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 9:24 am

Do you know a number of litvish (not formerly chassidish) YSV parents? Probably not.

So take my word for it. Tongue Out

And we can close this discussion.

Cuz it's not going anywhere anyways.

And it's totally off topic. Back to tights.... yes?

Tongue Out

What kind of tights do you wear? I wear MeMoi. Great control top and wash well. How do you wash your tights? I put in the washing machine and then hang dry- never put through the dryer! The dryer ruins tights, amirite? Wink

In the summer, I wear the Melas Honey pantyhose. Great color! Lady

I used to wear the ones from CVS but prefer the Honey color. So pretty and never look white or beige or too pale. Tongue Out

And affordable!

33055

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 10:10 am

gold21 wrote:

Do you know a number of litvish (not formerly chassidish) YSV parents? Probably not.

So take my word for it. Tongue Out

And we can close this discussion.

Cuz it's not going anywhere anyways.

And it's totally off topic. Back to tights.... yes?

Tongue Out

In the summer, I wear the Melas Honey pantyhose. Great color! Lady

I used to wear the ones from CVS but prefer the Honey color. So pretty and never look white or beige or too pale. Tongue Out

And affordable!

I know a number of parents at YSV.

The trick to tights not running is to soak them in water and freeze them in the freezer before wearing. This really works.

I wash mine in mesh bags in the machine and hang to dry also.

I totally agree about the Honey color. I sometimes buy in Macys when I get the coupons for $20 off of $50. Right now I have 4 of those coupons, so I will stock up.

I prefer knee highs. I usually buy 3 boxes at a time.

gold21

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 10:11 am

Squishy wrote:

Cool trick about the freezer
Gotta try it

marina

Sun, Feb 26 2017, 11:10 am

imeinu wrote:

Hi Marina,
I think your understanding of the "whys" of tznius differs from mine. While there is an aspect of covering ones self to not be a stumbling block, that is not the be-all and end-all of tznius. Even when alone, or in a room full of women only there is still an obligation (though it may be lessened) to act with tznius. There is the self pride issue. I am more than my body, and I cover so that my true inner beauty can come forth. The facts are that men or women that dress in a certain undignified matter are projecting a certain image about how they feel about thier bodies.
Regarding little children (and I do put tights on a little girl) No, her legs are not erva (as far as I know). It is more of a chinuch-training issue. The same way my little girl will come with me to hear megillah this purim, and will wait between milk and meat although she is not obligated to, we start training in tznius early on as well. It would be kind of hard to dump all the mitzvos on her at age 12 with no training whatsoever.
At age 3 my girls requested skirts - they wanted to be like mommy. And if mommy is comfortable in her skin (and tights!), chances are they will too!

Women and girls go swimming together in bathing suits. No tznius issue there.

yichud also starts from age 3 as do other halachos. A woman ger is not considered a virgin if she converts after 3 bc- acc to rambam - gentiles are promiscous. After age 3 a girl is considered "open for business" to be crude. Hymen is considered intact if she was raped before 3 but not after- she's not a besulah anymore. No pictures of girls in magazines if they aren't babies. It all adds up.

And like others have said, we gradually build up modesty like so many other things, but communities who have girls dress in tights at 3 are often- but not always- pretty militant about it.