Would you be offended if you were asked to be Kvatter?

tichellady

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:12 pm

amother wrote:

She is correct. It is common to ask newly married couples (in the first year) to be kvater. It doesn't mean anyone thinks you are having IF. It is too soon for that anyway. You were being paranoid and it is this exact attitude that zaq is talking about - taking a kibbud and making it an insult. There is nothing odd about asking a new couple to be kvater. It's a great oppurtunity.

It's very obvious to me that there is not one rule about how this works. In some communities it's a kibbud for anyone, in some communities it's clearly linked to infertility, and in some communities it's linked to newlyweds ( according to you at least). It's not paranoid to think this is linked to Infertility when someone who has been childless for 5 years is given this kibbud by someone who barely knows them. The intentions may be lovely, but it can still be hurtful. If you don't understand what I'm saying, read this article https://www.google.com/amp/yes...../amp/

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:16 pm

tichellady wrote:

Right, but this poster was talking about how she was asked twice during her shana rishona and she was insulted that people thought she was infertile. Nope, dear, that is not at all what was going through anyone's mind when you are barely married. This is VERY different from your example of 5 years. That does imply that they are concerned about IF. Two different situations.

zaq

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:23 pm

Still. Where's the dlkz? People offering kvatter aren't evil or disgusting or deliberately twisting a knife. They mean well, just like all the people who wish singles IYH by you at weddings. Sure you get tired of hearing it. A child gets offended. An adult realizes that the intentions are honorable and appreciates that.

tichellady

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:27 pm

amother wrote:

It's not hard for me to imagine how in a community where kvatter=infertility people will assume that the newlyweds kvatters are dealing with infertility, and they might get nebachy glances or comments from other attendees ( remember, most people don't actually know how long anyone has been married for, unless they are close friends or family people don't really keep track). There are a lot of yentas out there. I got brachas for baby boys when I was happily on birth control in my early marriage. I'm not saying that someone should be offended when asked to be kvatter or that we should worry about what other people think so much , but I don't think it's so hard to imagine the awkwardness that could arise

tichellady

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:28 pm

zaq wrote:

I think we should just stop linking kvatter to infertility. It doesn't do any favors to anyone. Just give the kibbud to 2 people ( couple or not) who you want to honor. Problem solved

mommy3b2c

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:41 pm

tichellady wrote:

I think we should just stop linking kvatter to infertility. It doesn't do any favors to anyone. Just give the kibbud to 2 people ( couple or not) who you want to honor. Problem solved

That's what I do.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 9:46 pm

Op here with an update.
After reading this thread I felt inclined to just offer Kvatter to any married couple attending the bris, however my Dh wanted to offer it to someone without children.
I therefore asked two parents if they thought their children might be interested (got married within the year) and one parent was very appreciative and said her children were appreciate but they were out of town; the other parent asked his child and child in law, and they happily (at least that's what they told me!) accepted.

amother

Mint

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:01 pm

For 1 of my sons bris everyone I asked to be kvatter said no. The night before the bris I was making desperate phone calls. Please someone anyone. I hope the couples with children that I called weren't offended or think that I saw them as taking too long to have another baby.
For the next bris I decided not to do that again and only asked couples over menopause age who were so honored and happy.

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:02 pm

amother wrote:

Mazel tov! You might be a pal from another thread. It should be with mazel for you and all those receiving kibbudim!

amother

Yellow

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:34 pm

amother wrote:

Mazel tov! You might be a pal from another thread. It should be with mazel for you and all those receiving kibbudim!

Amen!
I am amother jet black from the other thread, is that who you think I am? Wink

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

Amen!
I am amother jet black from the other thread, is that who you think I am? Wink

Yup. The timing made sense that you would be making a bris now. I am glad you found a kvatter. All the comments here make it so stressful because you don't know who to ask.
Gotta go change some linens Wink

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 9:56 am

amother wrote:

No, dear, that wasn't the case. We moved to the community after our wedding so everyone assumed we had been married "for years". There's this one couple that don't have kids that are always asked to do kibbud in our community so it was either them or us that were asked. so please don't try to tell me one more time "that I don't need to be insulted" I am perfectly justified. None of you know the full story.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 9:57 am

tichellady wrote:

Thank you for understanding

BadTichelDay

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 10:19 am

For all that's worth, I appreciated being asked several times and in our case it was clearly linked to infertility. We got married very late (I was in my thirties, my dh in his forties) and got our first child in our fourth year of marriage, after treatments. Sort of everyone "knew". We were kvatterim a number of times and I always took it as a sign of support and encouragement. And I thought, if it's a segulah, all the better. Of course every community is different and for people who do not have fertility issues but think that others might think it, maybe it is a bit akward. But then one can always decline politely (and suggest other "victims", ha, ha. We did that once).

amother

Black

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 10:29 am

amother wrote:

Okay, dear.

amother

Teal

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 10:57 am

amother wrote:

So what's the full story? Why would people just assume you are married for years? I moved to a new community after I got married (oot) and one of the first questions people ask is where are from, when did you move, oh did u just get married (when they heard I just moved). That's how people get to know u.

Seas

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 11:09 am

It would appear the key distinction is whether the people being mechabed have any connection to you and would perhaps give you this or another kibbud anyway, or if they're only offering it because you're a 'nebach'.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 12:29 pm

amother wrote:

I was thinking about the linens during the bris today Wink

in a meaningful way

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

I was thinking about the linens during the bris today Wink

in a meaningful way

LOL!
Mazel tov little guy!
You should be zoche to raise him ltorah lchuppah ulmaasim tovim!

amother

Plum

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 12:48 pm

Seas wrote:

Oh how I wish I could irradiate the word 'nebach'.

Its unfortunate that I'm struggling years to have a child."oh nebach for me". But please please please please never call me a nebach - or anyone else.