What kind of Feminist are you? Take this QUIZ & find out!

Fox

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 3:58 pm

marina wrote:

Come on. This cannot be all you have to say. Where is a sharp critical analysis of how flawed this quiz is because of all the inherent bias in the way the questions are presented to slant left? LOL

Whoops! My bad! I thought this was one of those what-celebrity-are-you-most-like kind of quizzes.

Alas, it's been a tough week for all kinds of feminists, as self-identifying members of their groups have worked overtime to undermine the image of feminists as people who just want equality of opportunity and choice for women.

* Freelance writer Jody Allard stirred up a storm by complaining that men are so awful that she's not sure her own sons can escape the awfulness that is masculinity. Also, online dating is miserable. I'm Done Pretending Men Are Safe

* Betsy DeVos was excoriated by the usual cast of characters (Jessica Valenti, Slate, Salon) for having the audacity to suggest that Title IX protections and enforcements regarding s-xual assault must actually include due process for the accused. Title IX Guidance on S-xual Assault

* Ivanka Trump wore a "girly" dress. Ivanka's Girly Dress

* The drama continues in the case of a LGBT pride event that occurred several weeks ago in Chicago. Women holding rainbow flags with the Magan Dovid imposed were asked to leave; the flags were "triggering" and the march was to be "pro-Palestinian." Since then, the reporter who covered the story for the local LGBT media outlet has been reassigned to sales (after winning several journalism awards over the years) and the organizers of the march are now borrowing phrases and expressions, quite literally, from David Duke. Popular Neo-Nazi Term Deployed

* Self-described feminist Gigi Engle wrote an exhaustively detailed guide to a potentially risky s-xual practice without mentioning the risks -- and it was published in Teen Vogue, a publication technically aimed at older teens but primarily read by young teens and pre-teens. I think I'll skip providing the link on this one, ladies.

* Columbia University eventually agreed to pay Paul Nungesser some money in exchange for nearly allowing his life to be ruined by the harassment of "Matress Girl," Emma Sulkowicz, NOW's 2016 Woman of Courage. Tip for the future: better not to send your alleged rapist after-the-fact suggestive texts with offers to get together. Columbia Settles Gender Bias Lawsuit

Meanwhile, on the front lines of the real war on women, Radio Free Europe reports that 18-year-old Rajabbi Khurshed of Tajikistan killed herself after her new husband refused to accept the results of multiple virginity tests and demanded a second wife. Khurshed passed all the "tests" -- it seems her 24-year-old husband just wanted the dowry that would come with a second wife.

Fox

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 8:29 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Lol.
My fave kind of Feminism. 🙄

Just to clarify, despite a bit of a dust-up on Twitter between actor James Woods and Neil Patrick Harris, it is apparently okay to wear a "girly" dress if you're biologically a boy:

We can therefore presume that had Don Trump, Jr., worn the dress, the world would be a better place!

Not to indulge in conspiracy theories, but every photo I've seen of Neil Patrick Harris's kids has them looking like American Girl dolls with gender-conforming styles and accessories. Personally, I think David Burtka is sneaking into Lakewood to keep all those stores selling $200 headbands in business. Just sayin'

marina

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 6:29 pm

Fox wrote:

Can you go through these examples and explain which kind of feminism these authors/activists espouse and make look bad? Because the way you are writing about this, yet again, makes it seem like ALL feminists are crazy.

And that's literally the opposite of the point of this thread. Work with me here.

While you're at it, can you plse shed some light on how you would respond if someone wrote a thread like this about Judaism.

Quote:

Alas, it's been a tough week for all kinds of Jews, as self-identifying members of their groups have worked overtime to undermine the image of Jews as God-fearing good people.

Blah blah blah lakewood

blah blah blah child molester

Blah blah blah bigot

blah blah blah uneducated burden on society

Would you be like, oh yeah, Jews suck I guess. Or would be like : what a foolish person to take singular experiences and paint the rest of the group with a broad brush?

marina

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 6:36 pm

Quote:

* Betsy DeVos was excoriated by the usual cast of characters (Jessica Valenti, Slate, Salon) for having the audacity to suggest that Title IX protections and enforcements regarding s-xual assault must actually include due process for the accused. Title IX Guidance on S-xual Assault

There are many problems with the s-xual violence policies issued by the OCR in 2011. From my professional experience, there are Many.

But a failure of due process isn't one of them. Because no one has a fundamental right to attend any particular university. The accused assailants get all the process they are due in criminal courts. In university investigations, the ONLY thing at stake is your continued education at that institution- not your freedom, etc.

Universities dismiss students every day for much much less than being accused of a s-xual crime. Grad students are asked to leave because they're taking too long with their thesis or they aren't playing the politics well in the PhD world or whatever.

All of this may be unfair and wrong. But there's no due process or anything like that involved.

debsey

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 9:01 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

Once you've matriculated in a PhD program, you have the right to due process before getting kicked out. Yes, there are rules like "you can't take more than ten years to write your dissertation" but there's definitely due process in all but "pay to play" online universities.

Just a side point. The rest I agree with.

ora_43

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:54 am

marina wrote:

Quote:

This may be true, but in practice getting kicked out of a particular university can be a more serious punishment than being sent to jail. A lot of people go into serious debt to get a university degree. If you're "free" but with $200,000 in tuition paid/debt incurred and nothing to show for it, how free are you really?

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like the accused get to decide whether they would rather be tried in criminal court or have a hearing at a university tribunal.

marina

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 2:10 pm

ora_43 wrote:

You'll have recourse. You can sue your university for breach of contract or whatever, just like anyone else who pays hundreds of thousands of dollars and is swindled etc.

Due process is a specific term applied to criminal charges because losing your freedom is way more serious than losing your tuition money. Of course pple who go to jail are invited back to university, so there's that.

And the accused will be tried by both, if the prosecutor thinks there's enough evidence for a conviction. Not sure what you mean to say.

Fox

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 3:51 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

Would you be like, oh yeah, Jews suck I guess. Or would be like : what a foolish person to take singular experiences and paint the rest of the group with a broad brush?

LOL, about 20 percent of the consensus on Imamother consists of the kind of conclusions you've used as an example of bad thinking!

In fact, look at the current thread on the eruv Mahway, NJ: a significant number of posters believe that some of the citizens' animosity over a frum takeover is because we make such bad neighbors. This was Theodor Herzl's theory of how the Arabs in the Middle East would perceive a Jewish state: bring so much prosperity, development, and trade that they'll welcome us!

And, yes, virtually every thread about issues in the frum community includes lengthy rants on chillul Hashem, stoking anti-Semitism, etc. So while I might not personally extrapolate bad behavior to an entire community or segment thereof, it seems to be considered a valid practice here on Imamother.

Now, back to feminism:

If I understand the point of the thread and quiz, it was to show that there are a plethora of different types of feminists who may have very different values, concerns, and worldviews.

In theory, that makes sense: "We may disagree on certain issues but we all want a world with equity of opportunity and treatment of women."

Except that reality simply hasn't worked out that way. Feminism was hijacked in the 90s by crazy feminists, and they haven't given it up. No matter how you package it, THAT is the face of feminism today. Which is why 86 percent of Americans support legal/social equity for women but only 16-20 percent are wiling to actually call themselves feminists.

There's always talk about "reclaiming feminism" from the crazies. That's an admirable goal, but I personally believe it is too late. The crazies have had 30 years to put down roots and grow their ideologies. We need a feminism that truly concerns itself with the welfare of women. Unfortunately, I do not believe that the intellectual heirs of Andrea Dworkin, a"h, who now constitute the loudest voices among those who consider themselves feminists, will be eager to give up their platform.

Here's something to think about from Cathy Young: Feminists Treat Men Badly. It's Bad for Feminism

debsey

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 3:53 pm

marina wrote:

This is a side point from the larger discussion, and I only know this because of an incident that took place when I was in graduate training.

You have a certain level of due process in an accredited university. Meaning, let's say you're an Orthodox Jew and you take off more classes than allowed due to a combination of religious holidays and then you had a severe case of food poisoning.

You would be asked to go before a dean, or to an arbitration type panel to decide how to handle it, right? I'm going to use some evocative imagery for Orthodox Jews, even though the situation I was witness to was nothing like this.

So let's say there's a situation where someone was accused of being microaggressive. She used language in the heat of a debate that made someone else feel unsafe (I'm not talking, "I'll come back with my handgun" I'm talking, showing up to class wearing a Magen David) The university decides to suspend the student.

The student protests. What's her recourse? To go to a binding arbitration-style hearing within the university. So that's kind of like suing a judge in his own courtroom, right? Do you really expect the university panel to rule against, well, the university panel?

I think that this is what @ora is getting at. Sure, there's some sort of "due process" in the university, but it's not exactly always fair and unbiased. And yes, if that panel rules you've violated a code of conduct buried somewhere in the 600 page document you signed when you started grad school, you can be completely out of your fees.

There's a lot of discretion here, with not a ton of checks and balances.

Education law is your field, Marina, so you might know more about this than I do. But that's my take on what she is saying.