Trump's remarks | Imamother

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 9:58 am

How can there be any decent person who believes there were "many sides" to what transpired in Charlottesville.

There is only one side when one side is yelling "Blood and Soil" (e.g. But und Boden, "Jews You Will Not Replace Us", wearing swastikas and carrying torches.

Have people seriously imbibed the poisonous propaganda of the right wing news sites to the extent that they equate people who were AGAINST such sentiments as being morally equivalent.

When you are in the company of David Duke and the white nationalist who was interviewed who stated that Kushner stole one of "our" women, then perhaps you should take a good long look at your moral compass.

marina

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:28 am

DrMom wrote:

I think the analogy to Israel/Arabs is grossly inappropriate.

In the Israel-Arab conflict, one side is looking to provoke, and the other just wants to be left alone.

In the Charlottesville situation, one side came with torches and shouting ugly rhetoric, and the other came with clubs and shouting their own ugly rhetoric. Both sides were looking for a fight.

Both White Nationalists and Antifa Fascists are hate groups. The former has a long history of ugly racially-motivated violence, and the newer Antifa movement has had a recent track record of violent riots, physically assaulting those who disagree, torching college campuses, and committing anti-police violence.

And why were the State Police ordered to stand down in the face of violence? Isn't it their job to protect citizens? Why was this tense situation allowed to descend into utter lawless chaos?

I think it's fine to be disappointed that the protesters weren't more civilized, but to equate the two is morally problematic and shows a lack of knowledge about what happened.

Read the witness accounts, including those by white supremacists, and judge for yourself http://www.latimes.com/nation/......html

Both sides threw stuff and beat each other. But:

The neo Nazis showed up in a paramilitary format, armed with guns and shields, and marching in formation. They chanted sieg heil and blood and soil and go back to africa. The shuls in the area evacuated their sifrei torah.

Then one of the Neo Nazis killed a woman and injured others. Then they posted about how fat ugly and childless the woman was.

The protesters showed up with mace, balloons filled with ink, chemicals,and pepper spray. They chanted **** Nazis and whose streets? Our streets and Black Lives Matter. But somehow they managed not to kill anyone.

Are you really equating the two? Really?

33055

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:54 am

Amarante wrote:

I don't think anyone is saying the positions are equal. I despise the alt right.

Both sides were angry and violent. I know I am sick of the violence on the left also. I also despise the alt left thinking they can steamroll any moderate opinion. I hate they shut down opposition. I hate they won't allow moderates to have opinion. I hate the media is so biased. I hate the left says you are either you are with us 100%, or you are not a decent person.

I condemn rewriting history. What Trump said resonates with me about rewriting history. When does it stop? Do we erase every mention of General Lee in Brooklyn? There is a movement to change a street named after him. They are getting rid of a plaque saying he planted a tree. Do we erase facts at West Point also? Do we stop mentioning Washington also because he kept slaves?

When I recently went to Germany, the Germans sanitized things also. The earlier exhibits put up in occupied Generally depicted the horror more realistically than the more recent ones. We also have horrible things in our history, but they existed.

We also have a media that is not representative of how people feel. I think most folks see two sides to getting rid of confederate statues.

SixOfWands

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:06 am

There is no such thing as the "alt.left" Trump made it up. http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/......html

In addition to the other things that were shouted, at least one person yelled, "The heat here is nothing compared to what you're going to get in the ovens." The fact that people here are defending them, and defending Trump saying that some of them were very good people, is beyond comprehension.

(Of course, Alex Jones has now claimed that there were no Nazis. They were all Jewish actors. This is what Trump gives press credentials to, while lambasting the "fake media" like CNN and the NY Times.)

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:13 am

Squishy wrote:

'

Donald Trump said the positions were equivalent so I have a disconnect with your arguments from the first sentence.

It is not the "left" that despises white supremacists, Nazis and the fringe movements of the altright. Trump's statements have been almost universally condemned by every politician both here in the states and abroad. It's a sad cautionary tale when Merkel is more quick to denounce Nazis than the President of the United States.

And the argument that Lee is equivalent to Washington or Jefferson and where will it stop is currently the argument circulating among the right wing viewers of Faux News and other conservative news media. It is an argument first started by Breitbart et al. Lee fought AGAINST the United States - actively he was in rebellion. Moreover, the statues and streets were not part of a great historic tide. Learn your history - they were part of the resurgence of the Klan at the turn of the century or the 1920's when the Klan marched in New York and Washington against Jews, Irish and any others who were not of Celtic or Aryan descent.

I just can't when there are people who are so hooked into their extreme political viewpoints that they denominate people who are AGAINST Nazis as the "left".

The statues are symbolic of white supremacy and a very dark period in US history. Why in the world would anyone feel that they should be left? To what purpose? They aren't great art and they commemorate traitors. Jefferson and Washington are not the moral equivalents of those who fought a war to end the United States - a rebellion.

SixOfWands

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:26 am

You don't need to look left to see the condemnation of Trump's attempt to create an equivalency between white supremacists and counter-protesters. Look right. They're all on the same side:

Mitt Romney‏

Quote:

No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.

Jeb Bush

Quote:

The white supremacists and their bigotry do not represent our great country. All Americans should condemn this vile hatred. #Charlottesville

Marco Rubio

Quote:

Nothing patriotic about #Nazis,the #KKK or #WhiteSupremacists It's the direct opposite of what #America seeks to be. #Charlotesville

Quote:

Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists

Cory Gardner

Quote:

Mr. President - we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism.

John Kasich

Quote:

There is no place in America for this violence and vicious hatred coming from white nationalist, KKK & neo-nazi groups. 1/
These groups are corrupting our country's greatness. America can and must be better.
This violence and hate must stop. 2/

Orin Hatch

Quote:

We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

33055

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:29 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Someone coins all terms. Call it Antifa or BLM/Antifa.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ille/

I know I can't see the harm, for instance, in leaving up a plaque that commemorates a tree General Lee planted the 1840s in Brooklyn. Nothing is served by erasing history except to placate the left. I think leaving up commemorative plaques serve to show the true nature of the war.

While I would never march to save history, I support those that do.

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:35 am

Squishy wrote:

Why is it then that the ONLY people who are rallying to preserve these symbols of white supremacy are Nazis, white supremacists, members of the Klan and other fringe haters.

I don't even know how to discuss something with a person who is so locked into a particular political view of venerating the right wing that anything that done in the name of the "right" which demonizes the left is okay.

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. How do you think the Nazi movement started in Weimar Germany. With Aryan (I.e. white) young men who felt economically disaffected. The same cesspool from which the altright is recruiting its army of hate.

SixOfWands

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:37 am

Squishy wrote:

How would you feel if there were statues of Adolph Hitler of Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler on public property, in Monsey?

If you're not OK with that, then why should you be OK with statues of Robert E Lee and other Confederacy figures on public land. They seceded from the US. They stood for the enslavement of people. The "heritage" that these people want to preserve is one of hatred and oppression.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:40 am

DrMom wrote:

Absolutely!!!!!

Luckily, I'm seeing plenty of people on the right condemn Trump's remarks, condemn white nationalists and the alt right, and ALSO condemn antifa.
I wish I saw the same on the left. Instead, from what I have seen, anyone condemning antifa gets attacked for 'victim blaming' or gets attacked as white nationalist apologists.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:42 am

SixOfWands wrote:

It can be taken down by voting for a mayor or city council who would promise to take it down. I would not lawlessly pull it down and then call myself an "anti" fascist.

33055

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:44 am

Amarante wrote:

The plaque on the tree commentating the planting was put up in 1912 I believe. Certainly, it was put up then or the next decade, but it commemorates events in the 1840s. See, I know a little bit about history which is why I hate erasing it. I hate erasing even bad events.

I certainly don't agree with everything DT says, but he is saying things I agree with. It is the left saying that if I don't agree 100%, I am not decent that troubles me. The left is bullying me.

When Princeton wanted to change the names on the Wilson Building because the left had a sit- in for 32 hours because he believed in segregation. They almost won. The President and winner of the Nobel Peace prize was almost erased also. He was never in active rebellion against the US.

Frankly, the place in history of General Lee should be told as factually as possible including ugly statutes.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:46 am

Amarante wrote:

Why is it then that the ONLY people who are rallying to preserve these symbols of white supremacy are Nazis, white supremacists, members of the Klan and other fringe haters.

That's not true. There are plenty of people who would like to preserve their history who are not white supremacists. I don't agree with them, but it's wrong to label them all evil.

Amarante wrote:

I don't even know how to discuss something with a person who is so locked into a particular political view of venerating the right wing that anything that done in the name of the "right" which demonizes the left is okay.

So true!!!!
I'm seeing it on both sides and it's despicable! The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.