Is cleaning help a necessity or luxury

pesek zman

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:12 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Here's the thing.

I have an 11,9, and 2 year old. I have a business but I only work about 1-3 hours a day. All of my kids are in school. I have a dish washer and use plastic. I try to make nice dinners but nothing extraordinary. I have about 13 hours of cleaning help a week.

And still, my laundry doesn't always get folded right away and my silver doesn't always sparkle.

Does that mean there's something wrong with me?

I've always heard (and see it's true for myself) that if you want to something done, give it to a busy person to get done. The more I have to do, the more efficient I am.

saw50st8

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:20 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

No. It means you are busy with other things. That's totally fine. I don't need to figure out your priorities :-)

mha3484

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:26 am

I just started getting help this past summer. I have some health problems that make bending over really hard. My husband will mop,sweep vacuum if the floor is clear of toys so I found a local college student who comes for 1-2 hours a week picks up all my kids toys and throws out any garbage that is too heavy for me to get to the curb. It has been extremely helpful and not as expensive as I thought it would be. My seven year old and I do his room together which teaches him self sufficiency. Its really a win win.

SixOfWands

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:26 am

amother wrote:

I'm referring to your summary of domestic life.

how is the mother supposed to juggle everything?

Clean house - necessity
Clean clothing - necessity
Healthy food - necessity
Mommy doing Homework with me - necessity
Bath time - necessity
Calm mommy who has time to listen to her kids and imbue them with Simchas HaChaim - necessity.

Mommy doing all of this, herself, with no help - insanity.

Are you a single mother? Because I don't see Daddy in this equation. Daddy can clean. Daddy can cook. Daddy can help with homework and give baths. Its not all Mommy, unless there is no Daddy.

No, cleaning help is not a necessity, unless all adults living in the household have physical limitations that do not permit them to perform routine household tasks. You are capable of performing these tasks. You simply prefer not to.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. If you can afford it, and its something you want, kol hakavod. But modern society -- and Jewish modern society in particular -- transforming wants into needs is fueling our socioeconomic issues.

Oh, and FTR, the percentage of stay at home parents has INCREASED over the past 20 years, from 23 percent in 1999 to 29 percent in 2012 (about the same as in 1987 -- the 30 years ago when another poster claimed that most women stayed home). Even as early as 1962, over 50% of mothers worked.

There's nothing wrong with "luxury" items. Just don't claim they're necessities.

nylon

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:27 am

It's a luxury. A very nice luxury, but one nonetheless. What if you worked just as hard but didn't have the money to pay one?

What angers me is not cleaning help, but entitlement. Not just that you deserve help, but that you deserve help at the price you want to pay. I've seen absurd justifications for the incredibly low amounts some poeple pay their cleaners.

SixOfWands

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:31 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

No. It means you're normal.

But I'm laughing about the silver. When my parents moved, I found boxes of silver (plate and weighted, not much valuable stuff ... in case someone is looking to rob me) in their garage. Why? Because my mother decided early in her marriage -- earlier than I recall -- that she was not going to polish silver. I have most of it now; I see her point.

debsey

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:33 am

SixOfWands wrote:

OP said her husband is out of the house from 7-6:30. If he has to go to Maariv, a chavrusah in the evening, does homework with some of the older boys, etc. that leaves very little time for housework on both their parts.

Kids need time and focused attention. That's much more important than cleaning. As far as I'm concerned, not getting household help in a family that's this busy would be insanity.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:33 am

SixOfWands wrote:

It's a relief to hear I'm normal😀

And regarding the silver, it happens to be one of my lowest priorities. Bh, my cleaning lady goes through my china closet every two weeks and polishes a few pieces at a time. Otherwise my silver would be gross.

saw50st8

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:35 am

debsey wrote:

Even if it means relying on tzedaka to pay for it?

amother

Azure

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:47 am

I wouldn't mind if my tzedaka money went toward cleaning for an overwhelmed family. I think its a beautiful of gift of loving kindness that can help a family. (OTOH, I do mind when I am asked to help ppl make simchas when they just "can't" have anything less than "standard.")

I had cleaning help sporadically when my children were younger. Looking back, I should have had more help. I had no help after birth from family members (maybe 1 or 2meals), went back to work 6 weeks after birth, and the buildup of work, work, work has resulted in residual resentment. I am getting older now (low 40s) and find I cannot do it all anymore. I have 4 hours of cleaning help and the word I would use is vital. This help is vital to my home, my children, my marriage, to me. There are orthodontist appts, skin dr, dentist, eye dr appointments for my children in addition to pediatrician visits here and there for when someone is sick. Besides me needing the doc, dentist, etc. Plus shopping, cooking, laundry, homework, and the regular maintenance - dish washing, putting away, wiping down counters, that is not heavy cleaning. Plus there is Shabbos and yom tov and the associated work. I'm tired ladies. That is the truth. I'm tired of working so so hard. There just needs to be room in the budget for a little bit of help. and ftr, my husband helps with errands, shopping, and baths and recently does nightly cleanup of the supper table. My kids help with tidying, laundry, and have insane amounts of HW. There is so much to do and I am just too tired to do it all. And I haven't worked for about 5 years now. I don't know why our culture demands so much. I have only one life to live. I'd like to enjoy some of it along with all the work.

amother

Rose

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 10:58 am

I agree with those who say that it depends on your definition of clean. I work full time and have many small children KAH. We don't have help. I clean and my husband cleans as much as we can manage. We don't live in filth but I'm sure many Imamothers would find our standards disgraceful. For sure I'd be happier if there was more seder in the house but we found a livable balance for us.

Ema of 5

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:00 am

amother wrote:

I am 30 with three kids and work 28 hours a week. Drop my kids off at school/babysitters on the way to work and pick them up on the way home from work. I am never home alone without kids and dh is out of the house from 730am-6pm. I was talking to a coworker yesterday and I was telling her Im so excited to have my cleaning lady scrub my toaster for me. She started going on and on how these days everyone thinks every thing is coming to come. In her days cleaning ladies were not so common and people did the work themselves (shes around 60). I said that may be true but 20-30 years ago most woman stayed home. Nowadays mostly everyone works. Times changed. When woman go to work they need cleaning help. I believe that 3-5 of cleaning help is not a luxury. If a family was struggling and both parents worked I would be very happy if tzedakah money supplied them cleaning help. What are your thoughts?

Disclaimer: I have not read through the comments yet.

For us it is a necessity. I have ADHD, and even with medication I just can't keep everything under control. We have 10 hours of help a week. You may think this is a lot, but I desperately feel like I need more. I work 38 hours a week, and it's just a lot to do. I also have a son with sever ADHD and ODD and I just don't always have the energy. Even with the 10 hours of help, there are still days when things just don't get done for days. Say what you want, but for me it is a necessity if I don't want to live in a dying disaster.

saw50st8

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:19 am

debsey wrote:

OP said nothing about tzedaka

Personally, I'd give tzedaka for such a thing.

Better and cheaper than paying for therapy for kids whose mother had an emotional breakdown.

I was asking how far you take your statement, it wasn't specifically about OP.

I would donate to an overwhelmed family as well, as a short term fix, but not a long term thing.

Ema of 5

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:26 am

SixOfWands wrote:

No, Daddy can't do any of that, because he doesn't come home until 10:00 at night. When Daddy makes supper for himself (Ema doesn't usually make for him) he will sometimes make extra for the next night for the kids, if it's something he likes.
Limitations don't only come in the form of physical issues. ADHD is a real limitation. There are others as well, which make it really hard for people.
Then there are the life issues. Like having kids with special needs.
Mental health is definitely a necessity. A healthy Ema is a necessity for her children. I don't not get to everything because I don't want to. I don't get not get to things because I am not able.
For me, cleaning help is not a luxury.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total

yehudis1056

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:26 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Sometimes "daddy" works extremely long hours and is not available for hmwk or baths or to clean or cook dinner. My husband is one of them. Bh no I'm not a single mom I am happily married but he is simply not available. Don't assume just cuz someone isn't a single mother that a husband is always able to pitch in.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:28 am

what I'm trying to understand is: is cleaning really all people need for their sanity? Otherwise colicky babies, difficult pregnancies, lots of little kids whining and fighting etc... are all fine? we don't have cleaning help. It doesn't affect my sanity but I'm also a SAHM of a small family. the lifestyle being described would set me over the brink but not because of not having enough time to clean!

Ema of 5

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 11:29 am

nylon wrote:

I don't think I deserve it, and I don't know anyone who has cleaning help who thinks they deserve it.
$15 an hour is not so little. Just for the record.
Want to know what angers me? People making judgements about other people. Lumping everyone together as if every situation is the same.