Is cleaning help a necessity or luxury

Ema of 5

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 2:37 pm

amother wrote:

what I'm trying to understand is: is cleaning really all people need for their sanity? Otherwise colicky babies, difficult pregnancies, lots of little kids whining and fighting etc... are all fine? we don't have cleaning help. It doesn't affect my sanity but I'm also a SAHM of a small family. the lifestyle being described would set me over the brink but not because of not having enough time to clean!

It is not all I need, but it's definitely a good step. It means it will take me that much longer to break.
I don't remember the lifetime being described but I'll quickly describe mine

4 kids- 10, 8, 5, 1.5
I work 35+ hours a week.
My husband is never home during the week
He is home on Fridays, and does a lot for shabbos.
I have a son with severe ADHD and ODD
I have ADHD, currently unmedicated.
Not sure if I'm leaving anything out....

mha3484

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 2:49 pm

I have a lot of stress in my life. I have a full time job, small apartment, a kid with some attention and behavioral issues, my own joint pain which at times can be pretty intensely bad. I feel a lot calmer when my living area and kitchen are clean and orderly. The bedrooms bother me less so I have the small cleaning help I have focus on the main rooms.

amother

Navy

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 2:50 pm

I didn't read all the comments, but it depends on a lot of different factors in the situation.

I am a single mother of 2 young-ish children. I am out at work about 30 hours a week if you count the commute, plus I have work that needs to be done at home outside of those hours. I can't afford cleaning help so I don't have any. Maybe that's (part of) why I am so overwhelmed.

FTR my mother didn't work when I was a kid, had a medium sized family, and had full-time cleaning help.

rachel0615

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 2:59 pm

During my Shanah rishona, I was out of the house from 6 am-7 pm. My hisband had even longer hours. I didnt even think that getting cleaning help was an option and we kept doing everything. I was working myself so hard that I ended up sick in bed for 10 days. It was awful. We started getting cleaning help and my gosh did it make a difference! My hours are not as bad now as they were and we still get help twice a month but not like before. You might think a couple with no kids having help is ridiculous. For me, when I was out of the house for so many hours each day and came home beyond exhausted, it was a necessity.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 4:53 pm

vicki wrote:

No question that it is a luxury.
The difference of opinion is in our conflicting definitions of "necessity".

Necessity = without which I would die. (Not without which I would live in a dirty house and be very very stressed... and yell a lot. And even cry.)

Food = necessity
Clothing = necessity
Shelter = necessity

Cleaning help = luxury.

But, please, if it raises your quality of life, gezunte heit.

Finally, a comment that makes sense to me. Outside of the frum Jewish community, it is indeed considered a luxury by most. That is perhaps why OP's coworker commented.

There are people struggling to feed their children, clothe their children and shelter their children. When you are in this situation or have been in this situation, you can truly appreciate that a cleaner is a luxury. I pity people on here who feel it is an essential. What happens if someone's financial situation changes, you need to downsize and cut back but you are used to a cleaner? I suspect a rude awakening about what constitutes a luxury and an essential...

amother

Plum

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:17 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I've always heard (and see it's true for myself) that if you want to something done, give it to a busy person to get done. The more I have to do, the more efficient I am.

But what if your draiiiined??

Busy person or not, a person only has so much energy, and some people have less energy than others. When I get home, I can go to her and lay down from exhaustion, forget about anything else. I can be efficient, but I need the energy to be efficient. Which on most days, I'm simply not.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:21 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Are you a single mother? Because I don't see Daddy in this equation. Daddy can clean. Daddy can cook. Daddy can help with homework and give baths. Its not all Mommy, unless there is no Daddy.

No, cleaning help is not a necessity, unless all adults living in the household have physical limitations that do not permit them to perform routine household tasks. You are capable of performing these tasks. You simply prefer not to.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. If you can afford it, and its something you want, kol hakavod. But modern society -- and Jewish modern society in particular -- transforming wants into needs is fueling our socioeconomic issues.

Oh, and FTR, the percentage of stay at home parents has INCREASED over the past 20 years, from 23 percent in 1999 to 29 percent in 2012 (about the same as in 1987 -- the 30 years ago when another poster claimed that most women stayed home). Even as early as 1962, over 50% of mothers worked.

There's nothing wrong with "luxury" items. Just don't claim they're necessities.

*Applause* and thank you for posting the statistics. The last line says it all.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:26 pm

nylon wrote:

It's a luxury. A very nice luxury, but one nonetheless. What if you worked just as hard but didn't have the money to pay one?

What angers me is not cleaning help, but entitlement. Not just that you deserve help, but that you deserve help at the price you want to pay. I've seen absurd justifications for the incredibly low amounts some poeple pay their cleaners.

I agree that there is often entitlement. People are entitled to shelter, food and housing. Everything else is indeed a luxury. I have no problem with people having cleaners if they want but I don't like people telling me that I "must" get a cleaner.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:28 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Cleaning is a necessity.
Help is a luxury.
Those who can't clean need help.

I disagree totally. Those who can't clean can choose whether to live in a house that isn't so clean or can get a cleaner if they have the luxury of being able to afford this. CLEANING IS NOT A NEED. Food, shelter and air are needs. Cleaning help is not, even if you are not good at it!

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:33 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Strictly speaking, it's not a necessity. As others have pointed out, not much in life actually is necessity. For me, the defining question is: would you give tzedaka for a family to have cleaning help? I personally wouldn't. But in terms of prioritizing my own finances, cleaning help is important. We have 5 kids and both work 40-50+ hours a week, but if I couldn't afford regular help, I'd do without and just live in a messier home. We'd all survive just fine.

Exactly the bolded. People can survive without a cleaner. People choose not to. If someone doesn't have a cleaner that's their choice. They don't NEED a cleaner.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:37 pm

Mommy2m wrote:

Most of us are coming from a mindset that we "need" a cleaning lady, regardless of if we work full time, part time, or not at all.

Yes, and this is exactly why those of us who don't feel this way feel so out of place in the community a lot of the time. I just don't "get" the mentality that people "need" a cleaning lady and people don't get my mentality that I don't need one.

amother

Azure

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:41 pm

Outside of the frum Jewish community, it is indeed considered a luxury by most. //

outside of the frum Jewish community, many ppl have Saturday and sunday to clean and run errands. they are not making the equivalent of Thanksgiving dinner every week... there are added pressures and responsibilities that make the comparison unfair.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 5:44 pm

amother wrote:

Outside of the community I know single parents with multiple kids working long hours, sometimes two jobs a day who do not have cleaning help. They don't have tzedakah and resources that the Jewish community has so I don't think the comparison is unfair at all, just because they don't keep Shabbos. Many non-Jewish families do big meals on a Sunday for their families.

amother

Navy

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 6:14 pm

Some people feel like cleaning help is a necessity for their sanity. But if they can't afford cleaning help they just have to manage. Personally, I feel like working fewer hours is a necessity for my sanity. Unfortunately, that is not something I can afford to do, so I just have to manage.

Everyone has a different idea of what would change their life from unmanageable to manageable. If someone wanted to give me tzedakah because I am struggling, I would rather use it to take off a day or two from work (I lose money when I miss work) than on cleaning help.

The question of whether cleaning help is a necessity or not is kind of a moot point. Two people could equally believe it is a necessity, but the reality is that if one can afford it and one can't, then only the one who can afford it will have help.

If you can afford it, then it doesn't matter if it is a luxury or necessity....spend your money how you want and to do what you feel makes your life easier. If you can't afford it, it doesn't matter how necessary you think it is....you still can't afford it.

ra_mom

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 6:26 pm

amother wrote:

I stand by what I said.
Cleaning is a necessity - Ask social services if a dirty home is considered neglect.
Those who can't clean need help - Help can come from anywhere; spouse, children, extended family. But cleaning is a need not a luxury and someone needs to do it.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 6:42 pm

My cleaning lady hasn't come since Yom Tov (except once) and I feel like I'm falling apart. Or at least my house is.

Oh, and I woke up coughing the other night, I think from dust in the bedroom. That's one of the things the cleaning lady does. I will probably ask DH to change the linens if she doesn't show up by Monday.

But I have health issues. Yesterday I put in a load of laundry and my abdomen was really in pain (unfortunately, I guess, I bought a stackable front loader. Fortunately, it's at least on my main floor.)

DH has been helping with dishes & bathrooms & is threatening to wash the floors for Shabbos. I may just let him do it.

Hopefully she'll be back next week.

Oh, and I started reading the Flylady book. Shine the sink? I have three. Should I just do one to get myself inspired? Plus I can't tolerate bleach so her first idea is a non-starter.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 6:42 pm

It is not a necessity in the sense that it is life-threatening without.

However, it is a necessity for many to have the status we refer to as "managing."

Remember, just as there are those who can file their taxes alone, and theoretically ANYONE can, most of us understand that it is often best outsourced. Same for changing oil, changing tires, taking trash to the dump, cutting hair, etc. Yes, theoretically anyone can learn, but for many of us we are just going to be inept.

With cooking, for example. Some people are really good and can take a box of raw material and come up with an award-winning meal. Others manage to burn everything they touch, and are best off sticking with frozen french fries and boxed cake mixes.

Cleaning can be like that too, except there are fewer shortcuts, if your home is to look decent. Can you "manage" without help if you are one of the inept sort, are low on energy, or are overwhelmed with your other responsibilities? Well, not to any standards. You can SURVIVE without it, but not thrive.

It's not quite "necessity" level, but I'm not comfortable calling it "luxury" either. (Unless, of course, you consider boxed cake mix and telephones luxury too.)

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Nov 02 2017, 6:43 pm

different people have different standards. I can assure you that there are homes that social services will not take the kids away from but that people on imamother would flip out if their house looked like that. There's a spectrum.