Couples Meals | Imamother

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 8:34 am

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

. In fact, many frown upon adding stringencies and DO look at chassidim/very right wing as LESS religious because some vew such chumahs and geders as adding to the Torah, which is quite assur.

Peculiar. I know people who don't consider them frummer than those who don't do chumra, but less? Peculiar.

More chumras can definitely make you "less frum" for want of better language descriptor. It's right in the mishnah in the description of a chossid shoteh. We are told they destroy the world. It is written as assur.

thunderstorm

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 8:45 am

Sure we do. However , I'm more of a homebody so I tend host more than actually be the guest even though we constantly get invited. I have kids though, so it may be different. When we were younger we went to people that were older than us a lot . ( both DH and I gravitated towards older individuals rather than people our age). As we built our family I began hosting couples to our table for Shabbos and Yom Tov and it really lifts me up. I always found it to be a beneficial and positive experience.
I am sort of Chasidish/Heimish but our friends range from Chasidish to MO. We don't really have much to do with the yeshivish crowd.

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 9:23 am

pesek zman wrote:

In a heimish office, or secular one?

Personally I have only worked with frum male coworkers, so they get it and do the same. But I know plenty of people who do this while working in secular offices.

OTOH, when I call other companies and speak to the non-Jewish owners or employees, I will say, "Hi Scott, this is Boca from 00" (they always think my name is unusual! Wink

). And to the ones who I deal with on a very constant basis, I say, "Hi Jared, this is Boca Raton", just to create a little formality. They just call me "Boca" back, but I don't call them out on it.
If a frum male coworker called me Boca, however, I definitely would correct them, "Please call me Mrs. Raton".

zaq

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 9:42 am

amother wrote:

I edited my above post out of respect for those that didn't like it, however, let's call a spade a
spade. There is such a concept in Judaism as more religious, or less religious. I didn't write better or holier, cause that's not for me or anyone else to decide, however someone who covers her hair, for example, is more religious than someone who doesn't. The latter may be a better person in many other ways, however in this specific area she is less religious. This concept applies in many different areas, and this is where some ladies who are less religious may start getting unnecessarily defensive.

I disagree. Religiosity is on the inside. It’s your sincerity, your desire to do the right thing, your closeness to G-d. Nobody can measure that.

What you call religiosity I call stringency. That is external and can be measured. If you drink only CY and someone else drinks chalav stam, you are more stringent in that area. If someone wears her sleeves to the wrist and you wear them to the elbow, she’s more stringent than you in that area. She may daven with less flair and less often but with more kavanah. Or not. Your relative religiosity I wouldn’t think to assess, because I cannot possibly know what’s going on inside. I only see external stringencies. And sometimes external stringencies are counterproductive.

Kiwi13

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 9:48 am

I think there is a concept of more or less careful/observant of specific mitzvos, but I’d be very wary of calling someone more or less religious overall. There’s no way for us to judge such a thing. Who’s to know which mitzvos are “more important” and whose kavanah is “more pure?” And that doesn’t even take into account that each of us is born into our own set of circumstances with our own challenges. Who can know who is trying their best and achieving their fullest potential, even if it looks like “less” than someone else’s?

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 9:49 am

zaq wrote:

I agree, to an extent. What would you call someone who doesn't keep any halacha? She eats pork while driving to her job in a bikini on Shabbos. Would you still call her religious?

pesek zman

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 11:21 am

Boca00 wrote:

Interesting. I don't have any frum male coworkers. I work in a hospital among doctors whom I am on a first name basis. I'm trying to imagine calling a doctor "Jared" and then asking him to call me "Ms White" (I don't use the word Mrs, when referring to myself except when "Mr and Mrs", and I also didn't take my husbands last name"

Then again, we socialize as couples

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 11:29 am

pesek zman wrote:

Right, in the case of a coworker, he would be Dr. Smith and I would be Mrs. Raton. "Jared" is not a coworker.

pesek zman

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 11:34 am

Boca00 wrote:

Right, in the case of a coworker, he would be Dr. Smith and I would be Mrs. Raton. "Jared" is not a coworker.

Right, except in my workplace it is. In casual workplace, it would be very unusual to not be on a first name basis when everyone else is. Especially when the physicians who are older than you ask you to call them by their first name

Being the frum one in a secular workplace is effectively isolating: eating lunch alone while everyone else goes out, not socializing after work, etc etc. I don't feel the need to seem more alien than I already do, and can only imagine this working (for me) in a heimish office where it is the understood norm

But again, we don't travel/work/socialize in the same circles so we wouldn't have the same norms

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 1:14 pm

From my perspective, it appears that the Chassidish/Yeshivish lifestyles has little faith or no trust in human's psyche. It it automatically assumed that a person will fail any nisyanos placed before him, so they implement stringency upon stringency to prevent that from happening. The other communities do seem to be aware of the 'danger', but rather provide the tools how to manage the situation or adjust your behavior so that you don't go against Halacha.

I compare the situation to raising children. We are all aware of the pitfalls, when and where our children can get hurt. But if all we do is place blockades around it, the child will never learn how to overcome it. If we give him the tools and teach him the way around it, the child will come out stronger and better for it. True, there may be some pain and hurt involved, but almost always you have a healthier and stronger child. Will a child ever learn how to walk, if you keep him forever strapped in a bassinet? We let the child learn how to walk, and we stand by his side giving him the tools what's needed and catch him when he falls.

I apply the same concept to this "couples meals" issue. True, you'll never even experience a nisayon if you completely segregate the other gender out of your lives. You'll never fall, but will you ever walk? If we allow for normal human interaction with both genders, and use the Torah guidelines and Halachos as our tools and devices to catch us if we begin to fall, we will walk - and live a better life for it. And yes, it is better. Because we have learned how to overcome and rise above and learned how to act and behave in a normal society and do what's right.

And by behaving and acting appropriately in situations, makes one more religious imo. Less religious would be acting inappropriately. And by not putting yourself into an equation - you're just maintaining a status quo - not more or less religious.

(All this is in reference to normal human activities - obviously not in situations that are completely against halacha).

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 1:22 pm

Do you not use any safeguards? Capping medicine bottles, locking your safe, putting a baby gate up or stowing dangerous chemicals on a high shelf?

It's ok to have these things around as long as you take the appropriate safety measures.

Check the statistics of affairs, and you'll see why it is good to take some precautionary measures.

I can't speak for chassidim, but no yeshivish people I know completely segregate men and women. Like I said, I work with men. I call men and even eat meals with men. But with boundaries in place. I think everybody agrees there should be some "fences" in place, but the different communities just draw the line in different places.