Never thought I’d be one of those mothers

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 5:05 am

studying_torah wrote:

You know what bothered me the most, is that you now regret coming to be with your CHILD and do not want to take care of her post partum because you are upset by her name choice?! Really ? I'm sorry but that is horrible. Even if you do not tell your Dd anything, I assure you that she can feel this.
Do you think your father would want this? I think not.

I guess I am a horrible mother then.

Leaving my family at home, travelling to be here, making arrangements for my job, carpool, etc at home to be here makes me a horrible person right?

I am being honest. That’s how I feel. I am emotionally exhausted and jet lagged and I don’t have the strength to care for her. But I willl.

I feel very judged by u.

And that’s what u got out of all this? That I’m just horrible for feeling this.

amother

Turquoise

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 8:21 am

amother wrote:

.

I don't see why families are so rigid about whose turn it is. You need some common sense here. If there's been a recent death in the family, and the parents want to use that name, they should go ahead and do it.

Again, op, I understand your disappointment. But if you are embarrassed to tell your family the name because they are all expecting it to be for your father, that means there's a whole extended family putting pressure on this young couple. Is that really a good thing?

You can't know all the factors that went into the decision. The kids were thoughtful enough to let you know in advance, so you could get over your disappointment. I think you should take the opportunity they have so graciously offered, and be gracious yourself. Naming for your father would have made you happy, but not naming for him isn't an insult. It's a choice made by the parents.

[b]

OP, I know this is so hard and I feel for you. I had a very hard time with a name given to a grandchild. Until the moment I heard the baby being named I was sure a name that meant a lot to me was being given. I had such a hard time pasting a smile on my face as I received Mazel Tov’s. Your kids obviously know this is painful for you. I can’t get into their heads and figure out why they’re doing it, but at least they have the sense to let you know so it doesn’t come as a shock.

animeme

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 8:24 am

I think this shows the beauty of imamother. We all experience feelings when we are first faced with a difficulty. Some of them aren't pretty. We work it through in private, and then arrange ourselves to face the world around us. The onky thing often missing is other people who may be able to listen to us vent and lend anothet perspective, because we don't want those who see us every day to know those difficult feelimgs we have. Here, someone can vent and reveal, listen to others from other stages and perspectives, and still have those in RL around us get the more positive final product that they need.

Mazal tov, OP. May you find peace in all of this. May your father's neshama have an aliyah from the work that you do and have done on yourself.

amother

Silver

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 8:53 am

At my last baby's bris, my mother and her family were all horrified that I did not name after my grandmother's father (my great grandfather) who was a big rosh yeshiva.
There are plenty of great grandchildren With his name but no great-great grandchildren and they thought since I was his oldest great grandchild, I would for sure use the name.
Well, I didn't, because I didn't like some of the middos I saw in that family.
And they were horrified but got over it. But when my mother said something about it I said, "okay, you are welcome to not visit your grandson and not have a relationship with them."
I was so angry at that whole family for ruining the atmosphere of the bris.

Purple2

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 10:42 am

Op, I’m with you. I’m not a grandmother, still at the naming children stage and I still can understand your feelings. I think there has to be a balance between”it’s my child I can name what I want” and just naming for what the grandparents want. I really try to keep that balance. I think having the grandparents in mind is just basic hakaras Hatov for all our parents and grandparents have done for us.

I tried very hard with each of my children to keep grandparents feelings in mind. I wanted to do this as a show of all the hakaras hatov I feel to them. I think kids who don’t do this and keep posting on this threads and other naming threads show a lack of good middos (I’m waiting for the attacks to come, that’s fine, I’ll still think it’s bad middos and selfish). If a name is really awful, or someone really doesn’t like it, then that’s something else but then it can be used as a second name, that’s better then nothing.
Op, your daughter does not sound like this. She’s on the same page in her naming choices. She sounds like she truly wants to do the right thing and feels like it’s your husbands “turn”. I made the same cheshbon when naming my children. I think your husband should speak up. Let him explain that he would “fargin” his turn this time for you. Me and my husband did the same where I gladly gave up my families turn for his. We also consulted with both sets of parents. We actually welcomed their input, as my children’s birth is everyone’s simcha. Your daughter might as well since she does seem to have sensitivity and derech eretz.
Btw, if someone doesn’t “get” this type of naming process, it might not be beneficial to chime in with insults.

amother

Linen

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 11:12 am

Now I'm dreading the reactions to the name we give our son.... Seems like every time we name a child someone ends up upset. This time around the name everyone expects us to give has a bad association for my husband. There was someone else with the same name that my husband doesn't exactly care for and doesn't want to be reminded of every time we call our child. This isn't something we are willing to share with others. Is it possible there's something similar going on with your daughter?

Raisin

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 11:53 am

Honestly, I don't think its so bad that the OP's daughter doesn't want to use the name. There may indeed be an excellent reason that she doesn't want to share. But some of the reasons she gave are downright insulting. The mother travelled each time to help her, but yet she values her fathers presence more, who only came once???? Insinuating that the mothers father is not a tzaddik?

I think the OP has every right to feel hurt. But should she say anything? No. She will only regret it later.

As for the extended family, I wouldn't worry. "Its my daughter and son-in-laws choice of what to name their baby, I wasn't involved. I'm sure they had a good reason. It was a beautiful simcha and the baby is so cute."

Honestly I am very surprised. Whenever a grandparent is niftar it always seems to be great point of pride when someone is the first to use the name. Its odd that Op's daughter doesn't want to take this chance.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 11:57 am

OP, I understand that you’re hurt. This is your daughters Simcha. She’s the one who had the baby and she gets to chose what to name her child. It’s very selfish to think that your feelings are more important, when it’s your daughters decision to do what she wants.
I come from a family where many, if not most, Simchas were ruined because of selfish parents. Some were on my side and some my husbands. Some over names and some for other selfish reasons. The Yetzer Harah tried getting in the way to make problems and fights. It could be your daughter can’t share with you the real reason she isn’t naming after your father, which has been the case by us a few times. It doesn’t matter why or what! It isn’t your business! It’s her baby!
It might be hard, but the most important thing for you to do right now is be happy, enjoy the Simcha and push your feelings aside as much as you can(at least until you get back home).

amother

Coral

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:13 pm

camp wrote:

So if I understand you correctly:

When I'm holding my precious newborn in my arms and I'm trying to figure out a name that will fit his essence (through that motherly feeling or ruach hakodesh granted to moms), trying to fit a name that may have some wonderful hashpoas on him, trying to avoid him carrying a cringeworthy name for lifetime and do right by my child - I'm being selfish.

But when I'm using my precious newborn as a tool for myself, a tool for ME to show Hakaras Hatov to MY parents, using him as a tool to avoid having the yentes talk about ME, using him as a tool to make everyone feel better about themselves, then I have good middos?

cnc

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:22 pm

amother wrote:

This. Ruach Hakodesh was given to the baby's parents not the grandparents. Grandparents should have no say in naming their grandchildren- they had their turn with their own children. Thank goodness both of our sets of parents are on the same page as us.

Purple2

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:23 pm

Thanks for being cynical it’s always a pleasure and shows great middos.
I think we should try to have our grandparents and parents in mind. Yes I think the hakaras hatov and simcha you will give is a sign of good middos. I am the mother of many children and I never felt that including my parents in the process took away from all those deep mystical feelings your talking about. Hadracha from my family only enhanced the process.

Purple2

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:29 pm

Also coral amother, I specifically said if it’s a cringeworthy name or even one you don’t like it’s ok to discuss and not give. It’s something that mature adults can discuss and will understand. We did that with two names and all family members understood. My daughter told me when my grandmother passed away that she doesn’t love the name(a very very normal name) and wouldn’t feel comfortable naming a child that. Of course I said don’t worry about it.
Please read carefully before posting

amother

Coral

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:32 pm

camp wrote:

Cynical? Imo, pointing out distorted thinking is not cynical. The previous generation has brainwashed us and distorted our way of thinking in order to apply pressure to get their way. Our children come first, they are our primary consideration - that is our obligation and duty! If the primary won't be affected, we can then move on to the secondary (considering our parents and the like). Putting our children before anyone and anything else is the essence of motherhood. Everything in the world has a time and a place. Hakaras Hatov is a wonderful thing, but not when you place it on the back of an innocent child. There are plenty of other ways to show Hakaras HaTov to your parents.

I'm very glad that for you this wasn't issue, but your personal situation has zero impact on others' situation. Just because it didn't affect your deep mystical feelings, doesn't mean it doesn't affect other peoples.

amother

Coral

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:38 pm

camp wrote:

Again, your personal situation doesn't account for others. Just because your family members understand, doesn't mean others do. Those family members who don't understand, also consider the parents 'selfish'.

Just that there is even the thought that parents putting their children first can be considered selfish, is beyond understanding. Like I said in the above post, if your wish is to show Hakaras Hatov to your parents, there are other ways to do it. Putting your child comes first, showing Hakaras Hatov comes AFTER that.

Don't you realize that when you are thinking about using a name as Hakaras Hatov, you are actually thinking about YOURSELF? That I, me-myself and I, can now use this innocent baby as means for ME to do something nice.

(edited)

cnc

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:46 pm

camp wrote:

Hakaras hatov is a very important middah but there's a time and place for everything. I would go out of my way and comfort zone for my parents - they do tons for me. But it's important to remember that the privilege of naming children was given specifically to the parents. Hakaras hatov should not override going against my intuition when naming my children.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:50 pm

Raisin wrote:

Honestly I am very surprised. Whenever a grandparent is niftar it always seems to be great point of pride when someone is the first to use the name. Its odd that Op's daughter doesn't want to take this chance.

A friend of mine has several boys, but she did not name any for her maternal grandfather.

He'd molested her. And, as pained as she was at seeing her mother's hurt each time she did not use the name, she could not pain her mother even more by disclosing the actual reason she wasn't using her grandfather's name.

I'm not suggesting that this was the case with OP's father. But maybe OP can try to be dlz that her dd seems to be in a difficult position.

Regardless, it's a painful position for OP to be in, too, and I don't mean to diminish that.

cnc

Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

Or maybe the name reminds her of someone else that shares that name and the person is someone she doesn't want her child to emulate.