What will Brooklyn look like in 15 years?

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:17 pm

watergirl wrote:

Lol no jobs? What do you think we all do to support ourselves? Where do you get your information? The houses where I live go for $150,000. And I have a job. And there are always places hiring. Always. Dont fall for the idea that some things are only possible in Brooklyn. It a farce. And no, I dont think you would all move en masse. Didnt you see the amother upthread who said she wouldnt leave for anything? So that means a cheaper, bigger house and a job. She wont leave. And there are plently like her.

Exactly watergirl! There are houses in my neighborhood for under $200K and the buyers of these homes are frum and have jobs. What we don't have here is the garment district or the diamond district or a big electronics store like B and K or tons of kosher butcher shops and restaurants. Someone with skills, however, could probably find a job.

watergirl

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:25 pm

amother wrote:

We've crunched the numbers for various communities. For us personally pay in other locales would be significantly less and our financial lifestyle would be the same. Higher tuitions and food costs, lower housing and insurance costs, higher car expenses. If there was a benefit to moving we would but we won't exchange one set of problems for another.

You’re backpedaling. You said there are no jobs. There are. Now you're adding other issues. You’d actually be spending way less in many ways. Housing, taxes, for starters. Its a more simple lifestyle out of Brooklyn so thats way cheaper. Tuition is actually pretty similar. I know this because I've also crunched numbers. Food costs are the same also. Look at Watsonsale.com and then go to season’s website and see for yourself that the prices on food are very comparable. Just say you prefer Brooklyn, you dont have to give an excuse or justification for why you’re staying. Its great if you like it there. But please dont give pretend rationale that is not fair to those of us who live the out of Brooklyn life and know you arent correct in your assesment.

amother

Amber

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:26 pm

amother wrote:

If they can only be rich by living in Brooklyn or with a crazy commute they will stay. I have a neighbor (in Lakewood) who spends five hours a day (yes FIVE hours) commuting to his job in downtown Brooklyn. I would take living in Brooklyn over a five hour commute any day. I have other unemployed neighbors who if they lived in Brooklyn with its greater job opportunities probably wouldn't be.

We're one of those "crazy commuters", so probably if both dh and I would be making a high enough combined salary it would be worth it for us to move to Brooklyn, for a better quality of life. Or closer to Brooklyn.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:27 pm

amother wrote:

You do trade one cost for another. For example, a family with children here in Detroit usually needs 2 cars. If you own a home, you have maintenance, taxes, snow removal, utilities, lawn trimming, etc, whereas a renter in Brooklyn doesn't have these expenses. As far as food, produce costs less but meat, cholov Yisroel dairy, and heimish products costs more, and tuition varies from city to city and school to school because my Brooklyn kids have chosen some pricey schools because they have better programs and smaller classes. One plus to home ownership, besides equity, is having your own backyard to raise kids in.

The government seems very generous in NY to the frum community and I don't know if they are as generous here.

amother

Yellow

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:31 pm

watergirl wrote:

I didn't realize you were privy to our numbers. Glad to hear you know our numbers are all wrong. You have a really nice attitude too.

amother

Peach

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:31 pm

amother wrote:

I would also rather live in Brooklyn then commute 5 hours, however your neighbor demonstrates just how desperate frum people are to stay out of Brooklyn. He is willing to spend 5 hours a days commuting rather then moving his family there. I know many people who have a similar feeling. It's unusual that an area is so pricey, and at the same time many people avoid it like the plague for reasons other then the price. With the exception of Sephardim, I don't think young frum families are buying houses in the middle of Flatbush anymore.

watergirl

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:49 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't realize you were privy to our numbers. Glad to hear you know our numbers are all wrong. You have a really nice attitude too.

My attitude is fine, you cant really hear tone of voice over the internet. Of course I dont know your numbers. But believe me when I tell you that I know the numbers of groceries, tuition, home prices, gas prices, taxes, clothing, etc. So when I say that I know the numbers, I know that I would be paying the same, if not more tuition in Brooklyn than I do here. I dont buy meat unless its dirt cheap, and I know those prices too. So I know that rent in Brooklyn is WAY higher than elsewhere. And homes are way more money, for way less. And yes, the cost of living is way less "oot" than in Brooklyn, when you keep in mind the keeping up with the Goldbergs that is not the same elsewhere. Once you leave the TriState area, Bugaboos are pretty rare, for example. girls match their clothing, but from Target, not the Frum store up the street. Its just a different lifestyle where I live. And not just where I live, all over the place, people find that there is a more simple way of living. Obviously I dont know you and I dont know your lifestyle. Everything both you and I are saying are generalities. But numbers dont lie and dont generalize.

I was saying that you were backpedaling because you were. You first said that there are no jobs in communities where you can buy a house for $150,000. I said you are not correct. Then you gave other reasons. To which I disagreed, based on my own life experience and research.

Often, there is a way that people from Brooklyn look at the rest of the frum world, and it is frustrating for us. People have an idea of a life "oot" that is just not true or realistic.

And I also said, and I meant it nicely, that its really great if you like it where you live. Everyone should like their town. If you are happy there, that is wonderful, and I mean it.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:02 pm

I live in a large house with a large lot . I live in Lakewood. When we first bought our house it was considered a high price for lakewood. We bought it for $425,000. Now 15 yrs later it is worth around $625,000. Since so many people are moving here from all walks of life the cost of housing is rising. You can still purchase a small home (very small) in the upper 2's. My parents live in a tiny attached home in NY that is worth around $700,000. It really doesn't make sense that people would pay so much to live like that. (my parents bought the home decades ago for under $50,000.) I think that since the cost of housing is ridiculous in many areas of NY people are slowly looking for other options and in another 15-20 yrs, Brooklyn will be a slow dying community.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:06 pm

amother wrote:

I doubt it will become a dying community. Certainly not Boro Park. Two and three family homes are constantly being knocked down by developers and 8 condos are being built in their place with each one sold before the original house is even knocked down.
It's just that it's becoming a more and more homogeneous community.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:12 pm

amother wrote:

Down is right. The girls and boys school that I send to drastically cut down classes in the last couple of years. People are moving out.

Not in the Syrian schools.
And by the way many of us are not rich but we rather stay here with our community and family then move to out of town and have our big house with no family.

And the rich people aren’t going anywhere either, they will just buy a double lot and then they get their driveway and big property.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:18 pm

amother wrote:

I highly doubt Brooklyn will be a slow dying community. This pace is booming
Oh and Lakewood is not far being in the prices, before you know it, it’s gonna be a million to buy a house. Prices went up already and people are building left and right.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:25 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly. I have friends that paid just under 800k in Lakewood. The difference is that their house is double or triple the size of a house/ apartment in Brooklyn is over a million.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:36 pm

Orchid wrote:

Remember reading somewhere (but don't remember where) that enrollment in Brooklyn and Beis Yaakovs in Brooklyn are for the most part flat, or down.

I work in a Brooklyn Yeshivish boys school (not chassidish not sephardic) enrollment is maintaining at best but more accurately its a slow steady decline. I am thirty and can only think of three people my age that own houses in Flatbush and they are from very wealthy families. I have plenty of friends that are from here and want to stay here but home ownership is just not in their plans. I personally am looking to relocate to the five towns area. There is so much infrastructure here - that I don't think Brooklyn will ever be a thing of the past but the Yeshivish community will definitely be smaller than it is now in 15 years.

HonesttoGod

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:40 pm

I didn't read all the responses but "sephardim who can afford it"?? Really OP?
I see many many Chasidish, hungarians, who are buying left right and center. In boro park. For 1Million plus.

I can imagine being a slower growing community, but there will always be those who will want to live here. Manhattan never became and old community and in irreligious or non jewish communities the same thing applies. Some areas have a pull for whatever reasons (convenience being a big one in Boro Park) and even though many will move away for $$ reasons, many many will still stay and live the life.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:42 pm

amother wrote:

Lol there aren't jobs available in the locales with houses going for $150k. If there would be don't you think we would have all already moved en masse?

no, because the way it appears to me, chasidim value being near their families more than anything else. So I’d day boro Park is growing much faster than Flatbush for example. There aren’t as many young people moving to Flatbush as in boro Park. Because today boro Park is mostly chasidish.