What will Brooklyn look like in 15 years?

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 1:55 pm

amother wrote:

no, because the way it appears to me, chasidim value being near their families more than anything else. So I’d day boro Park is growing much faster than Flatbush for example. There aren’t as many young people moving to Flatbush as in boro Park. Because today boro Park is mostly chasidish.

Flatbush is not growing at all. Enrollment is not increasing in the Flatbush schools. They are maintaining or shrinking. Young families are moving to Lakewood left and right because the housing is so unaffordable here. I have a coworker in her sixties who is complaining that her friends are starting to move to Lakewood because thats where the kids are and they can sell their houses here for 1.5mil (to sephardim) and buy a much bigger for less than half in Lakewood (or Jackson, Toms river) and retire. She doesn't drive and she only has two kids who live oot and she is very nervous what will happen to her flatbush in ten years time.

flowerpower

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:12 pm

I don't know.. but they are building a ton of apartments by Maple Lanes and next to Shop Rite in Brooklyn. I think in 15 years a lot of people will still be living here. Rent doesn't seem to go down at all though.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:21 pm

My parents live in Brooklyn on a completely Jewish block. Over the years, every single new family moving in has been either Sephardic (Syrian) or very yeshivish ashkenaz, with Sephardic being the majority. I see that’s who’s buying in Brooklyn. I went to a high school with almost all Ashkenaz girls. Most of them have left Brooklyn. I see Brooklyn as being mostly Sephardic and very yeshivish ashkenazim. Those are the two demographics that seem to like Brooklyn. Everyone else has moved on.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:25 pm

Oh, and the reason why some families do not leave Brooklyn? Well I can personally tell you because they cannot get their kids into schools in the ‘burbs surrounding Brooklyn. Yes, many of the Brooklyn people have moved en mass to the suburbs and the schools there are growing like crazy and it’s hard to get your kid in. Especially if they have an IEP or need accommodations. Know a couple of people in this boat.

DrMom

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:28 pm

Here's a cool map showing demographic trends in various NYC neighborhoods:

http://www.chpcny.org/makingne.....onal/

It only breaks down the population by race, not religion, but it is still interesting.

dancingqueen

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:28 pm

watergirl wrote:

Lol no jobs? What do you think we all do to support ourselves? Where do you get your information? The houses where I live go for $150,000. And I have a job. And there are always places hiring. Always. Dont fall for the idea that some things are only possible in Brooklyn. It a farce. And no, I dont think you would all move en masse. Didnt you see the amother upthread who said she wouldnt leave for anything? So that means a cheaper, bigger house and a job. She wont leave. And there are plently like her.

Yeah I don’t get this either. There are jobs everywhere. Maybe everyone is talking about a genre of frum jobs you can only get in Brooklyn? Not sure.

watergirl

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:34 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Yeah I don’t get this either. There are jobs everywhere. Maybe everyone is talking about a genre of frum jobs you can only get in Brooklyn? Not sure.

I was thinking the same thing after I posted. People are always posting about jobs where you are paid more for your married status, more for amount of kids, etc. or men being paid more right out of kollel with no training than in other locations. Do you think that’s what she meant?

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:41 pm

amother wrote:

This is a large part of the reason that I'm staying put in Brooklyn. My child with multiple dxs has an IEP and gets tons of services. There aren't comparable services in other places. (in regards to quantity and quality. ) and for my other kids that don't require services b"h... The school situation in Lakewood stinks , I can't imagine being satisfied in a single school there. I've done plenty of research and have applied to schools.

Once I start moving to other places that are "OOT" my tuition increases by a lot and so do other expenses! (Although the housing makes up for it obviously, but I'm relatively low maintenance in Brooklyn so it's not like I'd be saving tons of money on clothing or not keeping up with others etc.. My kids wear h&m and target and old navy now etc.)

leah233

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:42 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Yeah I don’t get this either. There are jobs everywhere. Maybe everyone is talking about a genre of frum jobs you can only get in Brooklyn? Not sure.

It's indisputable that Brooklyn has far more available jobs than other areas.

Busloads and car pools of people commute to Brooklyn from places like Mosey and Lakewood.
The converse is unheard of so obviously Brooklyn has more jobs.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:48 pm

leah233 wrote:

I don't think it as a question that Brooklyn has far more available jobs than other areas.

Busloads and car pools of people commute to Brooklyn from places like Mosey and Lakewood.
The converse is unheard of so obviously Brooklyn has way more jobs.

Exactly. I should also add that the going salary for my job is much more in Brooklyn than in other places that I looked into. (Although certain living expenses are cheaper etc.) And in some areas there's no demand at all for someone with my qualifications, though of course I can try to find office work for $15 an hour and no benefits. But if I'm giving up a job that currently pays $60 an hour plus benefits for example, how much am I actually gaining.
To summarize, it's not so black and white. The entire picture needs to be taken into consideration.

mommy3b2c

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:50 pm

amother wrote:

I would also rather live in Brooklyn then commute 5 hours, however your neighbor demonstrates just how desperate frum people are to stay out of Brooklyn. He is willing to spend 5 hours a days commuting rather then moving his family there. I know many people who have a similar feeling. It's unusual that an area is so pricey, and at the same time many people avoid it like the plague for reasons other then the price. With the exception of Sephardim, I don't think young frum families are buying houses in the middle of Flatbush anymore.

That is not true. I know a lot of people who recently bought or who are looking to buy in the 20s or 30s. The ones who really can’t afford it are going to marine park. But there are definitely some people staying. Plenty are leaving too.

watergirl

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:54 pm

leah233 wrote:

I literally cant tell if you are being sarcastic.

Just in case you’re serious, what do you think all the jews do in Toronto? Chicago? LA? Baltimore? Miami? Tons of jobs. Tons of frum jews. What about Dallas, which has the lowest unemployment rate? Tons of jobs for even not frum jews. People commute for different reasons. I’d assume that those in buses originated in Brooklyn and their families moved out for various reasons, and they did not want to give up their jobs in Brooklyn. I can’t imagine there are no jobs in Lakewood or Monsey.

It seems like you are only focusing on your daled amos of the Jewniverse.

leah233

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:58 pm

watergirl wrote:

Your assumption in bolded is totally incorrect.

amother

Peach

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 2:58 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Exactly. You say "definitely some people staying". It seems at this point way more families are leaving then staying. If you randomly knocked on 20 young renters right now, how many do you think will say they aspire to buy in bklyn? Possibly zero. They know they are priced out. Also the road out of bklyn is completely 1 way. I live in Passaic and so many of us here are originally from bklyn. It never goes the other way, meaning you never have a young family in bklyn who is from elsewhere.

Iymnok

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 3:00 pm

leah233 wrote:

y
Like any city, the jobs are mostly in the city, usually downtown, and the affordable residential areas are at the outer parts of the city or the suburbs.
New Jersey is known to be suburbia.
I don't know anything about Brooklyn, but if someone has a well paying job there then moves to a different community with superior quality of life, it makes sense that he would keep his reliable job.
If 200 such people make the same move, you've got vans of carpools going back.
That's plain old logic.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 3:57 pm

amother wrote:

All of this. Neighborhoods change. People come and go.

amother

Peach

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 4:02 pm

fleetwood wrote:

Those of you who think Flatbush is in decline are wrong. People are snatching up houses too quickly to meet the demand. Brooklyn is thriving.

I'm sure what you're saying is true, but that's not the discussion. The question is who is buying those houses and is the neighborhood changing. In a typical growing thriving neighborhood, young families are moving in. It seems that as far as the frum community is concerned, with the exception of Sephardim, this is not the case. Which means that the neighborhood will be an aging/sephardic area over time.