Lakewood offensive sign?

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 10:59 am

Ruchel wrote:

How is hate speech ok??

In the US, hate speech has very specific legal parameters.

Let's go kill all the Jews! is hate speech, because it is a specific call to action.

I don't like Jews in my neighborhood! is an opinion, and protected speech.

Is it horrible speech? Is it motivated by hate? Absolutely, but it doesn't meet the legal guidelines. Hate speech has to imply a direct and imminent threat to the safety an individual or group.

When Black Lives Matter calls for killing all cops, that is hate speech. Saying that all cops are racist, is not hate speech, it is an opinion.

Mommyg8

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:06 am

leah233 wrote:

Even if you are correct that these programs technically speaking aren't welfare the point remains the same. Our communities reliance on government assistance does not endear us to our upper middle class neighbors who are paying for it through their tax bills.

Are we living on the same planet????

Which upper middle class neighbors live in Lakewood????

And again, WE ARE PAYING FULL TAXES. Property taxes, sales tax, income tax, state taxes. What are you talking about????

leah233

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:17 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Most of the resentment is coming from the towns bordering Lakewood.

It is safe to say that most people who live in Lakewood don't pay income taxes on the federal level and very little if anything on the state level (legally)

You seem to feel too passionately about this issue so I won't respond further.

SixOfWands

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:24 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Please google the income limits for JerseyCare. I feel like I'm saying this over and over and over again. Please google it!!!

How can someone with an annual income of $140,000 a year be eligible for welfare????

"Welfare" refers to government assistance programs. There are 6 major welfare programs in the US -- TANF, Medicaid (including CHIP), Food Stamps/WIC, SSI, EITC and Housing Assistance (including Section 8). Then there are smaller programs like LIHEAP.

And yes, when you hear certain politicians talk about those terrible people on welfare, that's who they're talking about. They're wrong, of course. The problem isn't that these programs are all welfare. Its that you associate "welfare" programs with bad things. They're not. They're our government helping out people who need financial assistance.

BTW, you can only get Jersey Care making $140,000 a year if you have 8 children under the age of 19.

shyshira

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:25 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Because NJ feels that at 140,000 is low income for a family of 8 (10?). JerseyCare is a government funded insurance program to support low income families.

splitting hairs maybe - but when the government provides your family with support of any kind because of your level of income, its a form of welfare.

Cookiegirl

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:26 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Please see below for the WIC income requirement from the USDA website...

Income Requirement

To be eligible for WIC, applicants must have income at or below an income level or standard set by the State agency or be determined automatically income-eligible based on participation in certain programs.

Income Standard. The State agency's income standard must be between 100 percent of the Federal poverty guidelines (issued each year by the Department of Health and Human Services), but cannot be more than 185 percent of the Federal poverty income guidelines.

Whether you like it or not, Mommyg8, poverty and welfare have a negative connotation, and there is no way to wiggle out of the fact that many Lakewood families are recipients of welfare. For the family that makes $140,000 per year, the reason they are eligible for welfare is due to the number of family members that have to share those $140,000 of resources...hence the "Stop Multiplying" sentiment.

It is unfortunate, and we as a community need to do better at interacting with our neighbors of all types, starting with an appreciation and understanding of how they view our community. Putting your fingers in your ears and saying "We aren't on welfare lalalalala" doesn't work...

Mommyg8

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:31 am

SixOfWands, so I associated welfare with TANF. I think that most people do. My apologies if I am the only one who thinks that way, but I my feeling is that's what most people think.

And again, I apologize for my bad math, I read this quite a while ago and I must have dis-remembered the numbers. The actual upper income limit for a family of 8 is $117,012. That's hardly low income. And it includes, from my understanding, up to age 21. And I'm pretty sure there are a lot of families with eight kids (or more) living in Lakewood.

allthingsblue

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:33 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

SixOfWands, so I also associated welfare with TANF. I think that most people do. My apologies if I am the only one who thinks that way, but I my feeling is that's what most people think.

And again, I apologize for my bad math, I read this quite a while ago and I must have dis-remembered the numbers. The actual upper income limit for a family of 8 is $117,012. That's hardly low income. And it includes, from my understanding, up to age 21. And I'm pretty sure there are a lot of families with eight kids (or more) living in Lakewood.

$117,012 for a family of 8 actually is low income. Sounds like it would be pretty hard to survive on that... without government assistance, for example, jersey care...

Mommyg8

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:39 am

Cookiegirl wrote:

I'm sorry, but I got WIC for many years, and I was not eligible for any other programs. We were solidly middle income, does that now make me a welfare recipient?

I'm not putting my fingers in my ears. I am seriously asking these questions, as I do not understand the negativity.

I haven't noticed anyone going to Newark or Jersey City or any other inner city and put up a sign that says "stop multiplying" even though I am sure that the number of welfare recipients in those communities far outweigh the number of Lakewood recipients in Lakewood.

I would like to comment, even though it is unrelated to this subject, that the demographic in Lakewood is completely different than any other low income community. Many of the people who are on "welfare" do eventually go off it as they become wealthier, etc. This does not happen in any other low income community.

Also, we do not take up as many resources. We do not use the public school system, we don't need as many police, etc. I think a lot of this is coming from ignorance, which is why I am writing this.

Also, I'm just wondering what you think of this - German Jews were probably the wealthiest Jewish group, ever. Why do you think that Germany developed such virulent hatred towards Jews? They were certainly not welfare recipients in Germany.

Mommyg8

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:42 am

allthingsblue wrote:

$117,012 for a family of 8 actually is low income. Sounds like it would be pretty hard to survive on that... without government assistance, for example, jersey care...

Why would it be hard to survive on that? I don't think that's low income at all. You don't have to live in a 8 bedroom house with 6 kids - we grew up in 3 bedrooms and we all survived. You don't have to live fancy. That amount is more than enough to have a roof over your head, to pay utilities, and eat well. And many people get health insurance from work - which by the way, is not taxable.

sister1

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:48 am

I just want to give support to Mommygr8 because you all seem to be bashing her! Many people in lakewood put in many hours of work and are very honest in their dealings. They mantain their properties, contribute to society, and most of all, are supporitng כל העולם כלו with hours upon hours of Torah learning! MANY of them are very careful to only accept govt assitance within the boundaries of halacha, and I can attest that many also ask their roshei yeshiva whether to accept govt assist or not, and then follow through. If we bash each other like this, can you blame others?
Let's be as accepting of all members of klal yisroel as we want others to be and you can think of it as a zchus for someone you know who needs a yeshua!

SixOfWands

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 11:52 am

sister1 wrote:

No one is "bashing" Mommyg8. We're educating her as to the common usage and understanding of words.

Nor is anyone criticizing anyone who is genuinely entitled to and receiving welfare (ie, government assistance). Indeed, the only one who appears to be critical of those on welfare is Mommyg8, who associates welfare with bad things.

Mommyg8

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 12:01 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I think that I am going to start a poll asking what the word welfare means.

The question - If I receive WIC, do you think I am a welfare recipient?

Maybe later, if I have time.